[gmx-developers] hidden compiler flags in 4.6?

Mark Abraham mark.j.abraham at gmail.com
Sat Feb 9 00:02:03 CET 2013

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Szilárd Páll <szilard.pall at cbr.su.se> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Mark Abraham <mark.j.abraham at gmail.com>wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Szilárd Páll <szilard.pall at cbr.su.se>wrote:
>>> Note that I'm not talking about some magic override, but simply the
>>> ability to go to the flags and remove e.g. the "-ip" icc flag which I know
>>> that it can in some cases cause performance regression.
>> In a fresh release-4-6 build tree, if you use
>> CC=icc cmake .. -DGMXC_CFLAGS_RELEASE="-no-ip"
>> you get
>> cd /nethome/mark/git/another-r46/build-cmake-amd2/src/gmxlib &&
>> /opt/intel/composer_xe_2011_sp1.9.293/bin/intel64/icc  -Dgmx_EXPORTS
>> -std=gnu99 -Wall   -ip -funroll-all-loops -no-ip -O3 -DNDEBUG -fPIC
>> -I/nethome/mark/git/another-r46/build-cmake-amd2/src
>> -I/nethome/mark/git/another-r46/build-cmake-amd2/include
>> -I/nethome/mark/git/another-r46/include
>> -I/nethome/mark/git/another-r46/src/gmxlib   -openmp -o
>> CMakeFiles/gmx.dir/rmpbc.c.o   -c
>> /nethome/mark/git/another-r46/src/gmxlib/rmpbc.c
>> which seems to do roughly what you want, from a one-shot, because we have
>> partially segmented the sets of flags GROMACS adds, and prepend them for
>> each run of cmake. In this case, GMXC_CFLAGS_RELEASE is the magic name for
>> the C flags we add for the Release build type. Because we prepend the flags
>> to the initial value (which is initially unset by GROMACS), the value
>> passed in from the command line is there at the end. Then, because GROMACS
>> no longer caches the flags we generate, things can be changed later.
> Thanks, that indeed seems to be a decent workaround for my very specific
> example. Unfortunately, this won't work in general. It will only work if
> the user wants to remove/inactivate a GROMACS-default compiler flag which
> happens to have a -no-FOO pair.

...and works when adding a new flag. What use cases are there that are not
* inactivating a current flag, or
* replacing a current flag, or
* activating a new one?
Of those, what can't be solved by generating all the flags and doing a
wholesale replacement with GMX_SKIP_DEFAULT_FLAGS?

The biggest problem I can come up with is needing to remove a flag for
which there is no negation option (which itself sounds like a serious
defect in a compiler command line syntax, given the prevailing behaviour of
gcc and icc as I understand them).

It would be good to document this, but as it only works in a corner case
> I'm not sure it's worth it.
>> Note that CMake caches that command-line initial value itself, so that
>> the next call to cmake will also result in -no-ip. Then when you want some
>> other set of flags, without touching the cache you can do
>> CC=icc cmake .. -DGMXC_CFLAGS_RELEASE=""
>> and this reverts to the out-of-the-box functionality (or you could try a
>> new set of flags if you wanted).
>> Your original example where -m and -x conflict and lead to warnings is
>> irritating, but not a deal-breaker. Using GMX_SKIP_DEFAULT_CFLAGS provides
>> a two-step approach to fixing that. Obviously, make knows how to tell the
>> compiler the right things to do (e.g. src/buildinfo.h has the full CFLAGS
>> in it), so a *make* target that printed out the CFLAGS (whole and/or in
>> parts) might be a useful thing.
> Sure, that's all clear to me, except that the "two step approach" requires
> more like 4 steps :)  Additionally it is really easy to screw up for the
> aforementioned reasons (see  the details on the risk of unknowingly
> removing -O3).

You can't have a one-step solution for modifying default flags without
having either
* a million options for all possible flags (and one of my attempts to fix
#1038 was criticised for having too many options -
* knowing in advance what the defaults are

What's your fourth step? :-)
1. cmake ..
2. Find out what the default flags were - maybe automatically if there's a
way to get cmake to do it usefully
4. Profit???

 There's currently no way to say "cmake
>> -DUSE_MY_FLAGS_ONLY_IM_SUPER_SMART=-blahblah". I'm not philosophically
>> opposed to having one, but since compilers normally act on the last of a
>> series of inconsistent flags, the above approaches seem workable if we
>> document them in an advanced section of the installation guide. I think
>> there are probably more not-competent-enough users who'd wrongly try to use
>> it (or use it wrongly) and run into problems than smart-enough users/admins
>> with a real need case.
> That's exactly why I'm not certain that this workaround is worth
> documenting. The  problem is that the above approach solves only a special
> case:
> - will only work for removing a -FOO for which there is a "-no-FOO" *and*
> - the compiler used has the policy of silently overriding flags.

As I said above, the approach for appending user flags is more general than
you have so far recognized. Changing our build system to perhaps support
warning-free building for "niche market" build cases seems like a poor
return on our time.

Not only that there is no way to set a "USE_MY_FLAGS_ONLY_IM_SUPER_SMART"
> variable, but the GMX_SKIP_DEFAULT_CFLAGS workflow is IMO too complicated
> and fragile (ref:-O3 issue) even for advanced users.

Even an advanced user has to find out what the flags are before they
attempt to modify them. Any procedure that lets them do that is workable.
Even just documenting "look at src/buildinfo.h" is technically a solution
for finding out the compiler flags.

Is there anything you want to be able to do that these kinds of workflows
>> do not support?
> Uhmm, I guess I should clarify this. I am not trying to solve some burning
> issue that has suddenly crippled me. All my examples were simply use-cases
> meant to illustrate real-world scenarios in which the new behavior of the
> build system causes issues.
> So let me state it again: I am trying to discuss usability concerns of our
> build system that affect the type B users (i.e people familiar with the
> concept of compiler flags, comipler optimization, CFLAGS, etc).

Sure, but there's so far no example of a problem/compiler for which some
solution exists using the current mechanisms (if they were documented).
Half the exotic compilers people might try are going to perform badly and
we'll tell them to go and use [ig]cc anyway...

 In my eyes, reviewing and changing flags is much more important than the
>>> consistency of acceleration flags across cmake reruns, that's why I find it
>>> unfortunate that the build system got crippled in an attempt to fix that
>>> issue. Of course, I am biased, but putting aside the fact that I will
>>> suffer from this build system "behaviour regression", I think many
>>> sysadmins and other advanced users will also be scratching their heads.
>> If so, gmx-users must have some filters on it ;-)
> I hope you are not suggesting that:
> "not (exists complaints) => not (exists issues)"

No, but if they're not important enough to write an email about, then
they're not important enough for us to pre-emptively solve.

GROMACS 4.6 has been out for just a few weeks and I am fairly certain that
> many have not even gotten as far as installing it.

OK, but we still aren't going to prioritize solving non-yet-demonstrated
problems over the ones we know about :-)

> Moreover, most of the potential issues do not manifest as a catastrophic
> failures, but are rather silent.

Sure, but other than making it easy to see the compiler flags (which you
can do with make VERBOSE=1, also) what are you suggesting is a problem we
can solve?

 Additionally, the last few years I've had the opportunity to be in touch
> with sysadmins, programmers/engineers of HPC
> companies, experienced computational scientists, and similar advanced users
> and have seen their CMake cache and log files. These quite often showed
> signs of heavy compiler flag customization. Based on this experience, I can
> safely state that, this category of users does exists, and they do the kind
> of things that can be problematic with the new build system. Although they
> might not be great in numbers, I think I still it is not the best idea to
> ignore them, right?

Sure - but if we're considering something like a monthly patch cycle, if
there's something that's proven to be fixable, we can fix it.

We can't ignore the possibility that your past correspondents were working
around our old practice of caching CFLAG variables prematurely, or that
they wouldn't just go for our GMX_SKIP_DEFAULT_CFLAGS solution even if we
had something more exotic available.

    and adding or overriding should be possible through a single
>>>>> command-line invocation.
>>>>> More concretely IMO what we need is:
>>>>> - A summary printed or at least some read-only advanced variables so
>>>>> that one does not need to run e.g "mdrun -version" to know what flags are
>>>>> used;
>>>> I was (and still am) all for the summary. I really liked Teemu's start
>>>> of it. But it got cut because of time. Not sure it would be a good idea to
>>>> print just the flags without having a full summary. I think having
>>>> read-only variables is very confusing.
>>> I see your point, but you have yet to reply to my criticism on the fact
>>> that *it is impossible to at least check what flags are being used* and
>>> that is a major flaw.
>> CMake printing a summary seems awkward to me. If it's written as a status
>> message, you can't see it with ccmake, and if it's written as a warning
>> ccmake users will get in the habit of skipping real warnings. If using
>> cmake, we'd want logic to only print such summary information for the final
>> iteration - not sure if that's possible/easy enough to do.
> Printing a summary after the first time configuring succeeds should be
> quite simple do do - that's how the GPU-related notes are issued when GPUs
> are detected in the build machine but CUDA is not found.

Yeah, but that's not a sound solution if/when we have further configuration
that might scroll it off screen, and not a solution at all for ccmake, as

However, a make target to print the configuration seems to address most of
>> the issue. It replaces some of the use cases for inspecting config.log one
>> might have with autoconf build systems. Yes, you'd have to run a normal
>> cmake to find out the default (whether by a CMake summary or this make
>> target I propose), then decide how to modify it, then apply it using some
>> of the above mechanisms. If you magically know already what the defaults
>> will be, you can skip the first stage already and jump straight to using
>> GMX_SKIP_DEFAULT_CFLAGS. What do you think?
> I'd say we should print a configuration summary (with C/CXX/NVCC flags and
> the most important other options like fftw, CUDA, etc) both after the
> configure succeeds the first time as well as on user request.
> I think a target is a good idea, but I'm wondering whether a target is it
> more intuitive and/or easier to implement than having a cmake option that
> the user can turn on to get the summary printed.
> To check the configuration on certain build directory which one of the
> following would you prefer?
> $ make print-config-summary

The former, because auto-complete will type for me.

>     - An intuitive and consistent way to add/change the flags, what the
>>>>> user wants is simple, but currently requires a set of strange steps: enable
>>>>> skipping GROMACS flags, copy the printed flags, remove cache, re-run cmake
>>>>> with the copied flags.
>>>> No need to remove the cache.
>>> Fine, remove that step, but you've to add two more instead:
>>> - check default CMake flags;
>>> - re-add those when setting flags manually
>>> Again, I would very much appreciate of you or others developers would
>>> actually comment on the issue in question: the usability concerns around
>>> this rather long, complicated, and error-prone set of steps required just
>>> to change a flag -Foo to -Bar.
>> I was turned off by the tone of the original email. I imagine that has
>> something to do with the low response rate so far. We've all been wrong at
>> some point. Let's
> I see you criticism and I was indeed a bit pissed in the beginning. Sorry
> for the rather pushy mail.
> However, I still think that this major change in the build system behavior
> was merged in without much discussion, review, or feedback. The same is
> true for the closing of related bugs - if not both, at least 1040.

#1038 was up for several months. My RFC for fixing it (
https://gerrit.gromacs.org/#/c/1908) was up for a month, and unfortunately
you didn't manage to comment on it. Roland's solution for #1038 addressed
the issue squarely in the context of that lengthy discussion, and passed
our normal standards of code review. So I took my original attempt down. No
problem there.

#1040 was posted by you and also up for several months. Roland's solution
permits some of the operations you requested (one-shot command lines, and
adding a compiler option without cache editing) though we still need to
document how/when to use it.

Your other suggestion in #1040 requires us to somehow override CMake's
default behaviour, as noted by Roland there. Changing that would require
significant discussion, and it was entirely appropriate not to do that at
all. I agree that this behaviour of CMake makes it easy for the user to do
the wrong thing, but that is also something we can document. 'Fixing" it
might leave us vulnerable in the future to some change in CMake's
behaviour. So maybe the Redmine issue was closed prematurely, but the code
passed the normal review and addressed the fraction of your bug report that
was readily addressable.

These issues are up for months and you didn't manage to make the time to
discuss how to solve them. Others had been discussing and trying to solve
them. They thought the issues were solved and acted upon their consensus.
So the ball is in your court to show how they are not solved. If you still
don't have time to do that, then they're still putatively solved :-)

start discussions by asking questions like "is there supposed to be a way
>> for a user to add/replace/find out about a compiler flag?" If there isn't
>> (or it isn't a
> Again, you're right, I could have been a bit less judgmental. However, as
> I know our the build system fairly well and I am also somewhat familiar
> with cmake, I was quite certain that there is no robust workaround the
> issues raised.
>> good solution) then discussion can move forward happily to solving the
>> problem. If there is an existing solution, people are going to be happier
>> to mention it if they don't feel like they have to defend their previous
>> actions, or confront the asker by telling them they were wrong :-)
> There isn't much to defend here, I think. This was *a* solution to a/some
> problem(s) which introduced a set of other problems. My tone and wording
> was not demanding because it was questioning the solution, but because I
> was questioning:
> i) whether introducing new issues was really appropriate/necessary;
> ii) merging and closing bugs hastily without much feedback.

Unfortunately, Redmine doesn't note patches that never hit the history, but
to suggest there was only limited discussion is simply wrong.

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