[gmx-users] Re: Re: Bonds break while Minimising using distance restraints

plmallip at mail.uh.edu plmallip at mail.uh.edu
Thu Sep 4 01:21:23 CEST 2008



----- Original Message -----
From: Ryogo Sugitani <rsugitani at ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: [gmx-users] Re: Re: Bonds break while Minimising using distance restraints
To: plmallip at mail.uh.edu

> Latha,
> 
> I'm not sure why there is 1-4 interaction between 6151 and 6160
> by just making distance restraint between 1703 and 1712
> (because they shouldn't make a physical bond...)
> 
> but maybe adding space before and after distace_restraints 
> (between brackets) might help?
> Also, check the trajectory on VMD. 
> The warning is given, but md (or minimization) itself might be 
> running fine...
> 
> Other than this, I probably won't be able to help you any further.
> 
> Also, please post it back to gmx-ml for me...
> (just reply to this message and change the address to gmx's list)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ryogo
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:43:45 -0500, plmallip at mail.uh.edu wrote:
> > Hi Ryogo,
> > 
> >          Thanks 
> for your suggestion. You are right. But, I did do the 
> > energy minimization assuming the units are in nm But, I am 
> still 
> > facing the same problem of the residues to which I imposed 
> distance 
> > restraint breaking into fragments. I get this warning -  
> 1-4 
> > interaction between 6151 and 6160 at distance 1.387 which is 
> larger 
> > than the 1-4 table size 1.000 > nm. These are ignored for the 
> rest of 
> > the simulation. This 
> > usually means your system is exploding. 
> > 
> >     Do you have any other suggestions?
> > 
> > Thanks & regards,
> > Latha.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ryogo Sugitani <rsugitani at ucdavis.edu>
> > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 2:58 pm
> > Subject: Re: [gmx-users] Re: Re: Bonds break while Minimising 
> using 
> > distance restraints
> > To: plmallip at mail.uh.edu
> > 
> >> Hi Latha,
> >> 
> >> Since I cannot post it to the gmx ML directly for some 
> reason, 
> >> I'll just give this  e-mail to you.
> >> 
> >> I believe the unit for the distance used in 
> distance_restraints 
> >> is nm.
> >> So, you should change it to something like 1.15 1.20 1.20 for 
> >> your setting.
> >> Currently you have 115A, 120A, 120A...
> >> 
> >> Hope that helps,
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Ryogo
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:27:06 -0500, plmallip at mail.uh.edu wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>>       There is no chance of 
> steric 
> >> clashes between 6151 & 6160. They 
> >>> are seperated by 12 A. ("Warning: 1-4 interaction between 
> 6151 
> >> and 
> >>> 6160 at distance 1.387 which is larger than the 1-4 table 
> size 
> >> 1.000 
> >>> nm. These are ignored for the rest of the simulation. This 
> >> usually 
> >>> means your system is exploding") I cannot build the missing 
> >> residues 
> >>> without knowing the secondary structure. I am already 
> running 
> >> one 
> >>> simulation with built residues. But, my ultimate goal is to 
> >> run 
> >>> dynamics with distance restraints.
> >>>   
> >>>         My sytem is 
> an 
> >> pentamer. Here is the toplogy file
> >>> 
> >>> ; Include forcefield parameters
> >>> #include "ffG43a1.itp"
> >>> 
> >>> ; Include chain topologies
> >>> #include "chnrc_A.itp"
> >>> #include "chnrc_B.itp"
> >>> #include "chnrc_C.itp"
> >>> #include "chnrc_D.itp"
> >>> #include "chnrc_E.itp"
> >>> 
> >>> ; Include water topology
> >>> #include "spce.itp"
> >>> 
> >>> #ifdef POSRES_WATER
> >>> ; Position restraint for each water oxygen
> >>> [ position_restraints ]
> >>> ;  i funct       
> >> fcx        
> fcy        fcz
> >>>     1    
> >> 1       
> 1000       1000       1000
> >>> #endif
> >>> 
> >>> ; Include generic topology for ions
> >>> #include "ions.itp"
> >>> 
> >>> [ system ]
> >>> ; Name
> >>> Protein in water
> >>> 
> >>> [ molecules ]
> >>> ; Compound        #mols
> >>> 
> >> 
> Protein_A           1
> >>> 
> >> 
> Protein_B           1
> >>> 
> >> 
> Protein_C           1
> >>> 
> >> 
> Protein_D           1
> >>> 
> >> 
> Protein_E           1
> >>> 
> >> 
> SOL              55419
> >>> 
> >> 
> NA+              54
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks & regards,
> >>> Latha.
> >>> 
> >>>>> plmallip at mail.uh.edu wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hi Justin, thanks for your response. You are right. I get 
> >> the 
> >>>> following 
> >>>>> message in the .job file
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> "Warning: 1-4 interaction between 6151 and 6160 at 
> distance 
> >>>> 1.387 which 
> >>>>> is larger than the 1-4 table size 1.000 nm
> >>>>> These are ignored for the rest of the simulation
> >>>>> This usually means your system is exploding"
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The atoms I restrained are 1703 & 1712 (6151 & 6160 atoms 
> >> are 
> >>>> also from 
> >>>>> the same residues). The distance between them is 12 A 
> (there 
> >>>> are 14 
> >>>>> missing residues in between). My aim is to use distance 
> >>>> restraints, 
> >>>>> without building missing residues in between. Is there any 
> >> way 
> >>>> I can 
> >>>>> overcome this warning why minimizing the system?
> >>>> 
> >>>> It's very hard to say, because none of us knows what's in 
> >> your 
> >>>> system, topology, 
> >>>> or how you built things :)
> >>>> 
> >>>> You have some type of nasty steric clash that's driving 
> atoms 
> >>>> 6151 and 6160 
> >>>> apart.  Visualize the trajectory (.trr) to see if you 
> >> can 
> >>>> identify where things 
> >>>> start to break down.  I don't know if the distance 
> >>>> restraint has anything to do 
> >>>> with the problem or not.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Is there a problem with building missing residues?  
> That 
> >>>> might make life quite a 
> >>>> bit easier in the long run.
> >>>> 
> >>>> -Justin
> >>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Thanks & regards,
> >>>>> Latha.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>    > Dear colleagues,
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>>    > I need to use simple distance 
> restraints of 
> >> 12.5 A 
> >>>> between two CA atoms
> >>>>>    > of two residues. I am using the 
> following 
> >> lines in the 
> >>>> .itp file
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>>    > #ifdef DDISRES
> >>>>>    > [distance_restraints]
> >>>>>    > ;ai   aj type index type' 
> >> low   
> >>>> up1  up2  fac
> >>>>>    > 1703 1712 1    
> >>>> 0     1    11.5  
> 12.0 
> >>>> 12.5 1.0
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>>    > The first feww line of .mdp file for 
> >> minimisation of 
> >>>> protein alone is
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>>    > ; Preprocessing
> >>>>>    > ;
> >>>>>    > 
> >>>> 
> >> 
> title               =  ${MOL}
> >>>>>    > 
> >>>> 
> >> 
> cpp                 =  /lib/cpp    ;Preprocessor
> >>>>>    > 
> >>>> 
> >> 
> define              = -DDISRES  ;For cg, and also steep
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> You are not actually applying your distance 
> restraint.  
> >>>> If you have "#ifdef
> >>>>> DDISRES," then you would have to "define = -DDDISRES" in 
> the 
> >>>> .mdp file.  
> >>>>> What
> >>>>> you probably meant to define was "#ifdef DISRES" in the 
> topology.>>>>> 
> >>>>>    
> >>>           
> >>>> After minimisation, the restarined residues & the adjacent
> >>>>>    > bonds break. This results in fragmnets 
> - 
> >> residues 
> >>>> alone, peptide bond
> >>>>>    > alone and the rest of the protein. The 
> >> distance 
> >>>> restrained residues
> >>>>>    > seems to try to move towards each 
> other (6.04 
> >> A after 
> >>>> minimisation) and
> >>>>>    > this might have caused fragmentation. 
> I tried 
> >> to use 
> >>>> various upper and
> >>>>>    > lower values for bond length so as to 
> increase 
> >>>> flexibility. But, still I
> >>>>>    > end up in the fragments.
> >>>>>    >
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Bonds don't break in classical MD, this is just an 
> artifact 
> >> of 
> >>>>> visualization,
> >>>>> probably from nasty steric clashes within your structure.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>    
> >>>          Some 
> >>>> of the suggestions in the archive says VMD doesn't show
> >>>>>    > bonds if they r above threshold value. 
> When I 
> >> checked 
> >>>> the distances
> >>>>>    > between the atoms, one of them is 
> really long 
> >> CO-CA 
> >>>> bond 3.23 A
> >>>>>    > (normally its 1.59A). This means the 
> bond is 
> >> no longer 
> >>>> there.>  >
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> No, the bond is there, VMD just isn't smart enough to see 
> it 
> >>>> :)  You are
> >>>>> probably well on your way to an explosion if you try to 
> >>>> constrain bond 
> >>>>> lengths
> >>>>> with LINCS, however.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> -Justin
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
> --
> >> --
> >>>> ---------
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> gmx-users mailing list    gmx-users at gromacs.org
> >>>>> http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> >>>>> Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search 
> >>>> before posting!
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> >> the 
> >>>>> www interface or send it to gmx-users-request at gromacs.org.
> >>>>> Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> ========================================
> >>>> 
> >>>> Justin A. Lemkul
> >>>> Graduate Research Assistant
> >>>> Department of Biochemistry
> >>>> Virginia Tech
> >>>> Blacksburg, VA
> >>>> jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
> >>>> http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
> >>>> 
> >>>> ========================================
> >>>   
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> 
> 
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