[Fwd: Re: [gmx-users] A problem with a "detaching Calpha/s"]

Arik Cohen acohen at biochem.duke.edu
Fri Jan 1 06:01:27 CET 2010


thanks

Arik

Mark James Abraham wrote:
>
> On 01/01/10, *"Justin A. Lemkul" *<jalemkul at vt.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >No, sorry for the confusion. The images are only from a simulation 
>> of one protein(tmRBP_Unliganded, PDB: 2FN9). The problem seen with 
>> BPTI was a bit different in a way that only 1 C-alpha was "detached" 
>> (cell size ?).
>> >
>>
>> If there is supposed to be only a single protein in the images you've 
>> shown (and after having a look at the 2FN9 structure from the PDB), 
>> it seems pretty clear to me that part of your protein has simply 
>> crossed a periodic boundary and trjconv -pbc mol (or some such 
>> command) should fix it.
> Indeed. Further, note that the reappearance of a subset of the 
> seemingly detached atoms back with the main group is totally normal. 
> With domain decomposition in GROMACS 4, such "broken" molecules can be 
> written to the trajectory. Judicious use of trjconv fixes the 
> appearance of this non-problem.
>
> Mark
>
>>
>> >Arik
>> >
>> >Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>Which two proteins ? I have at least in beginning only one protein 
>> which some how is divided into two along the calculation.
>> >>>Any way I'll try both increasing the cell and fix it with trjconv.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>Quoting your original message:
>> >>
>> >>"While running a simple MD simulation with both a small protein 
>> such as BPTI and a larger one such as tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb..."
>> >>
>> >>I assumed that what I was seeing in the images was a set of two 
>> proteins.  My concern was that you defined a box relative to the 
>> larger protein, then inserted the smaller one (BPTI?), leaving 
>> insufficient space in the box to satisfy the minimum image 
>> convention.  If that's not what we're looking at, then that'd be 
>> useful to know :)
>> >>
>> >>If you have a single protein, "divided into two" then the problem 
>> is almost certainly a simple periodicity artifact.  Bonds do not 
>> break in a normal MD calculation (in fact they can't using the 
>> standard MM approximations).
>> >>
>> >>-Justin
>> >>
>> >>>Thanks a lot
>> >>>
>> >>>Arik
>> >>>
>> >>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>I'm using dodecahedron -d 0.7
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Was that distance specified with respect to both of the protein 
>> molecules in the unit cell?  You can check for spurious PBC 
>> interactions with g_mindist -pi. Anyway, I'd be curious to see how 
>> you do with trjconv.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>-Justin
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>Hi,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I have not tried yet to fix it with trjconv which I will . 
>> Attached is a picture with 4 snapshots taken from the simulation. The 
>> C-alphas in question are emphasized with red color.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Is your unit cell sufficiently large?  It looks like the 
>> C-alphas indicated are simply crossing the periodic boundary on the 
>> "left" of the frame and interacting with the protein molecule in the 
>> "right" of the frame, which would indicate to me that the unit cell 
>> is too small and you're seeing spurious PBC interactions (i.e., 
>> violation of the minimum image convention).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>-Justin
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Thanks
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Arik
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Sorry to bother you again ,but its not only a periodic 
>> effect since only *some of the atoms* in the  "Detached" group are 
>> vanishing from this group and reappearing in the main protein group. 
>> The rest of the atoms are either always in the detached or the main 
>> group.
>> >>>>>>>>>In addition, the "detached" group includes three segments of 
>> the protein(8 residues(126-131), 8 residues(157-164) and 4 
>> residues186-189).
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>From your description, this sounds exactly like a periodicity 
>> problem - some of the atoms are crossing the periodic boundary and 
>> are appearing in strange locations.  Have you even tried trjconv to 
>> fix it?  That would be useful information, as I see that Mark long 
>> ago also suggested the same sort of fix.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>It is hard for me to envision what you are seeing.  It would 
>> be enormously helpful if you could post images (screenshots, etc) of 
>> the problematic structures to get a more expedient resolution.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>-Justin
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks a lot
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Arik
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>With regards to your question I do see some periodicity in 
>> which for a section of time in the trajectory some of the Calphas in 
>> the "detached group" are vanishing from it and reappear in the main 
>> protein.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>In addition,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate as before any suggestion you might have 
>> in the matter.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>If this is just a periodicity artifact, fix it with trjconv.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>-Justin
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>Thanks
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>Mark Abraham wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks for answering so quickly !. Apparently whole 
>> residues have detached from the protein.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>So... like I asked last time, are you seeing a 
>> periodicity artefact? "Detached" covers a whole gamut of possibilities.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Another strange thing that happens in pyMol and VMD is 
>> that when I select an atom or a residue in the detached group the 
>> selection appears twice: one in the detached group and one in the 
>> main part.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>If you've got atoms duplicated, then it sounds like 
>> something's going wrong with how they're interpreting the structure 
>> file, or how you're manipulating it afterwards. Either way, it's not 
>> a problem for the GROMACS mailing list unless you can demonstrate the 
>> atoms are duplicated in the structure file (which they aren't!).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Mark
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark Abraham wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dear GROMACS users,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>While running a simple MD simulation with both a small 
>> protein such as BPTI and a larger one such as 
>> tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb, I'm encountering an odd situation in which 
>> one (in the case of BPTI) or several Calphas (in the later case) are 
>> "detaching them selfs" from the main group.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>"main group" of what? Do the atoms bound to them move 
>> also? Are you seeing a periodicity artefact?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The problem appeared only after adding salt to the 
>> simulation(at least in the case of BPTI).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate any suggestions and comments on the 
>> matter.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The run files are:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*em.mdp:*
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 Minimization
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  steep      ; (steep)using 
>> steepest descent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  50000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  1
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  10
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>emtol               =  5.0 ; tolerance kJ/(Mol -1 
>> nm-1) instead of 10.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*pr.mdp
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 PR
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  md
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  50000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dt                  =  0.002 ;(in ps) doing a 100ps traj.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>constraints         =  all-bonds
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  10 ; neighbour list updates 
>> every number of steps
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tcoupl              =  Berendsen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-t               =  0.1 0.1
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-t               =  298 298
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pcoupl              =  Berendsen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-p               =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>compressibility     =  5e-5 5e-5 5e-5 0 0 0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-p               =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  100
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>define              =  -DPOSRES ; include 
>> posre.itp(position restraint) file
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*run.md
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  md
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  300000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dt                  =  0.001
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>constraints         =  all-bonds
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  10
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tcoupl              =  V-rescale  ;V-rescale
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-t               =  0.8 0.8
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-t               =  298 298
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstxout             =  1000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstvout             =  1000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstxtcout           =  1000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  1000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The runs commands are(integrated inside a C++ code):
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SysCommand1 = "echo 6 | pdb2gmx -f " + FileName + " 
>> -water tip3p";
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("editconf -f conf.gro -bt dodecahedron -d 0.7 
>> -o box.gro");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>system("genbox -cp box.gro -cs spc216.gro -p topol.top 
>> -o solvated.gro");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>minimization:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if(Mode == "NoSalt")
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    {
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      //system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    }
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  if(Mode == "WithSalt")
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    {
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    }
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Salting:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("echo 12 | genion -s em.tpr -conc 0.1 -neutral 
>> -o solvated.gro");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>system("grompp -f MDP/prmd.mdp -p topol.top -c em.gro 
>> -o pr.tpr");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  /* The actual run*/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm pr");
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> -- 
>> ========================================
>>
>> Justin A. Lemkul
>> Ph.D. Candidate
>> ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
>> MILES-IGERT Trainee
>> Department of Biochemistry
>> Virginia Tech
>> Blacksburg, VA
>> jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
>> http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
>>
>> ========================================
>> -- 
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