[Fwd: Re: [gmx-users] A problem with a "detaching Calpha/s"]

Justin A. Lemkul jalemkul at vt.edu
Tue Jan 5 22:09:22 CET 2010



Arik Cohen wrote:
> Dear Gromacs users,
> 
> In continuation to the problem below, it seems that self interaction is 
> not the problem since a -d 1.5nm around the protein should have been 
> more than enough. Not noticing earlier, I see strange files being 
> created with the name "step1150b_n1.pdb"
> (a bug like structural report of that step ?). In those files and in the 
> pdb created after applying trjconv, the protein is drifted from the 
> cell's center to one of  the edge and a fragment appears at the other side.
> Saying that, trjconv does not solves the problem.
> 
> I would be most thankful for any comment/suggestion as to how to prevent 
> this drift which causes in turn to the "fragment" problem.
> 

Check your log file for LINCS warnings, etc.  These step_*.pdb files are written 
when the system becomes unstable and is on the verge of collapse.  Your system 
is probably blowing up, hence the weird coordinates.

-Justin

> Thank
> 
> Arik
> 
> Mark James Abraham wrote:
>>
>> On 01/01/10, *"Justin A. Lemkul" *<jalemkul at vt.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >No, sorry for the confusion. The images are only from a simulation 
>>> of one protein(tmRBP_Unliganded, PDB: 2FN9). The problem seen with 
>>> BPTI was a bit different in a way that only 1 C-alpha was "detached" 
>>> (cell size ?).
>>> >
>>>
>>> If there is supposed to be only a single protein in the images you've 
>>> shown (and after having a look at the 2FN9 structure from the PDB), 
>>> it seems pretty clear to me that part of your protein has simply 
>>> crossed a periodic boundary and trjconv -pbc mol (or some such 
>>> command) should fix it.
>> Indeed. Further, note that the reappearance of a subset of the 
>> seemingly detached atoms back with the main group is totally normal. 
>> With domain decomposition in GROMACS 4, such "broken" molecules can be 
>> written to the trajectory. Judicious use of trjconv fixes the 
>> appearance of this non-problem.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>>
>>> >Arik
>>> >
>>> >Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>Which two proteins ? I have at least in beginning only one protein 
>>> which some how is divided into two along the calculation.
>>> >>>Any way I'll try both increasing the cell and fix it with trjconv.
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>Quoting your original message:
>>> >>
>>> >>"While running a simple MD simulation with both a small protein 
>>> such as BPTI and a larger one such as tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb..."
>>> >>
>>> >>I assumed that what I was seeing in the images was a set of two 
>>> proteins.  My concern was that you defined a box relative to the 
>>> larger protein, then inserted the smaller one (BPTI?), leaving 
>>> insufficient space in the box to satisfy the minimum image 
>>> convention.  If that's not what we're looking at, then that'd be 
>>> useful to know :)
>>> >>
>>> >>If you have a single protein, "divided into two" then the problem 
>>> is almost certainly a simple periodicity artifact.  Bonds do not 
>>> break in a normal MD calculation (in fact they can't using the 
>>> standard MM approximations).
>>> >>
>>> >>-Justin
>>> >>
>>> >>>Thanks a lot
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Arik
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>I'm using dodecahedron -d 0.7
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Was that distance specified with respect to both of the protein 
>>> molecules in the unit cell?  You can check for spurious PBC 
>>> interactions with g_mindist -pi. Anyway, I'd be curious to see how 
>>> you do with trjconv.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>-Justin
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>Hi,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>I have not tried yet to fix it with trjconv which I will . 
>>> Attached is a picture with 4 snapshots taken from the simulation. The 
>>> C-alphas in question are emphasized with red color.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>Is your unit cell sufficiently large?  It looks like the 
>>> C-alphas indicated are simply crossing the periodic boundary on the 
>>> "left" of the frame and interacting with the protein molecule in the 
>>> "right" of the frame, which would indicate to me that the unit cell 
>>> is too small and you're seeing spurious PBC interactions (i.e., 
>>> violation of the minimum image convention).
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>-Justin
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Thanks
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Arik
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>Sorry to bother you again ,but its not only a periodic 
>>> effect since only *some of the atoms* in the  "Detached" group are 
>>> vanishing from this group and reappearing in the main protein group. 
>>> The rest of the atoms are either always in the detached or the main 
>>> group.
>>> >>>>>>>>>In addition, the "detached" group includes three segments of 
>>> the protein(8 residues(126-131), 8 residues(157-164) and 4 
>>> residues186-189).
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>From your description, this sounds exactly like a periodicity 
>>> problem - some of the atoms are crossing the periodic boundary and 
>>> are appearing in strange locations.  Have you even tried trjconv to 
>>> fix it?  That would be useful information, as I see that Mark long 
>>> ago also suggested the same sort of fix.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>It is hard for me to envision what you are seeing.  It would 
>>> be enormously helpful if you could post images (screenshots, etc) of 
>>> the problematic structures to get a more expedient resolution.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>-Justin
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks a lot
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>Arik
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>With regards to your question I do see some periodicity in 
>>> which for a section of time in the trajectory some of the Calphas in 
>>> the "detached group" are vanishing from it and reappear in the main 
>>> protein.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In addition,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate as before any suggestion you might have 
>>> in the matter.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>If this is just a periodicity artifact, fix it with trjconv.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>-Justin
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Thanks
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Mark Abraham wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks for answering so quickly !. Apparently whole 
>>> residues have detached from the protein.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>So... like I asked last time, are you seeing a 
>>> periodicity artefact? "Detached" covers a whole gamut of possibilities.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Another strange thing that happens in pyMol and VMD is 
>>> that when I select an atom or a residue in the detached group the 
>>> selection appears twice: one in the detached group and one in the 
>>> main part.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>If you've got atoms duplicated, then it sounds like 
>>> something's going wrong with how they're interpreting the structure 
>>> file, or how you're manipulating it afterwards. Either way, it's not 
>>> a problem for the GROMACS mailing list unless you can demonstrate the 
>>> atoms are duplicated in the structure file (which they aren't!).
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Mark
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark Abraham wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dear GROMACS users,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>While running a simple MD simulation with both a small 
>>> protein such as BPTI and a larger one such as 
>>> tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb, I'm encountering an odd situation in which 
>>> one (in the case of BPTI) or several Calphas (in the later case) are 
>>> "detaching them selfs" from the main group.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>"main group" of what? Do the atoms bound to them move 
>>> also? Are you seeing a periodicity artefact?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The problem appeared only after adding salt to the 
>>> simulation(at least in the case of BPTI).
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate any suggestions and comments on the 
>>> matter.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arik
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The run files are:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*em.mdp:*
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 Minimization
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  steep      ; (steep)using 
>>> steepest descent
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  50000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  1
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  10
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>emtol               =  5.0 ; tolerance kJ/(Mol -1 
>>> nm-1) instead of 10.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*pr.mdp
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 PR
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  md
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  50000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dt                  =  0.002 ;(in ps) doing a 100ps traj.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>constraints         =  all-bonds
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  10 ; neighbour list updates 
>>> every number of steps
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-t               =  0.1 0.1
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-t               =  298 298
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-p               =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>compressibility     =  5e-5 5e-5 5e-5 0 0 0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-p               =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  100
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>define              =  -DPOSRES ; include 
>>> posre.itp(position restraint) file
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*run.md
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>integrator          =  md
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsteps              =  300000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dt                  =  0.001
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>constraints         =  all-bonds
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstlist             =  10
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rlist               =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>coulombtype         =  PME
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rvdw                =  1.0
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tcoupl              =  V-rescale  ;V-rescale
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tau-t               =  0.8 0.8
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ref-t               =  298 298
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstxout             =  1000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstvout             =  1000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstxtcout           =  1000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nstenergy           =  1000
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The runs commands are(integrated inside a C++ code):
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SysCommand1 = "echo 6 | pdb2gmx -f " + FileName + " 
>>> -water tip3p";
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("editconf -f conf.gro -bt dodecahedron -d 0.7 
>>> -o box.gro");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>system("genbox -cp box.gro -cs spc216.gro -p topol.top 
>>> -o solvated.gro");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>minimization:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if(Mode == "NoSalt")
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    {
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      //system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    }
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  if(Mode == "WithSalt")
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    {
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    }
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Salting:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("echo 12 | genion -s em.tpr -conc 0.1 -neutral 
>>> -o solvated.gro");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>system("grompp -f MDP/prmd.mdp -p topol.top -c em.gro 
>>> -o pr.tpr");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  /* The actual run*/
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm pr");
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ========================================
>>>
>>> Justin A. Lemkul
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
>>> MILES-IGERT Trainee
>>> Department of Biochemistry
>>> Virginia Tech
>>> Blacksburg, VA
>>> jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
>>> http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
>>>
>>> ========================================
>>> -- 
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-- 
========================================

Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

========================================



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