[gmx-users] Surface tension readings in NVT vs NPT simulations

David van der Spoel spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se
Sat Mar 12 17:24:43 CET 2011


On 2011-03-12 17.17, Denny Frost wrote:
> Thanks for answering that question about dispersion, that makes sense.
> Also, The values I currently get with NPT are around 58 mN/m, while the
> average values I get for NVT are around 16 mN/m, but with a variance of
> nearly 100% of that value.  I'm beginning to see why you only do
> pressure coupling in the z direction, but gromacs 4.5.3 won't let you
> specify tau_p = 0.  Any other way to do pressure coupling in just the z
> direction?
check manual.
maybe there is only one tau_p value.
> Denny
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Denny Frost <dsfrost at cableone.net
> <mailto:dsfrost at cableone.net>> wrote:
>
>     Is that using anisotropic pressure coupling?
>
>
>     On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:55 AM, David van der Spoel
>     <spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>> wrote:
>
>         On 2011-03-12 16.45, Denny Frost wrote:
>
>             I have run NPT simulations using isotropic and semiisotropic
>             coupling
>             with the same results.  I have never done coupling in just
>             one direction
>             though, how do you do this?.  I have never used Dispersion
>             corrections.
>             It seems to me that this would help, rather than hurt though
>             since, as
>             Aldi said, it will make the system closer to experimental
>             values.  I
>             will give this a try and see what happens.  My question
>             still remains -
>             why do NPT and NVT simulations give such different values
>             for surface
>             tension?
>             Denny Frost
>
>
>         You don't give any values so it is hard to judge.
>         - NVT may have completely wrong pressure
>         - Dispersion correction assumes a homogeneous system as regards
>         the average disperson constant per volume, which you probably do
>         not have. E.g. in an ice/water surface dispersion correction may
>         induce melting.
>
>         The dispersion correction is *not* to bring your system closer
>         to experiment but rather to correct for the use of a cut-off.
>
>         - Coupling in one direction: specify e.g.
>         ref-p = 0 0 1
>         compressibility = 0 0 4e-5
>         tau_p = 0 0 5
>
>
>             On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:40 AM, aldi asmadi
>             <aldi.asmadi at gmail.com <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>
>             <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com
>             <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                 David,
>
>                 I have a question that is still related to your reply.
>               If the bulk
>                 liquid NPT and the interfacial liquid-vapor NVT
>             simulations are
>                 performed using dispersion corrections to the pressure
>             and energy,
>                 while the intefacial liquid-liquid NPAT simulation don't
>             use any
>                 correction, can we say that all results are valid since
>             we don't give
>                 the same treatment for all systems?
>
>                 In the NPT and NVT calculations, we apply corrections in
>             order to
>                 reduce the discrepancy between the calculated and
>             experimental
>                 properties (say density and surface tension) as small as
>             possible.
>                 Here we have more confidence that our molecules in
>             systems behave
>                 accordingly judging from the macroscopic values we
>             obtain.  Meanwhile,
>                 in the NPAT calculation, we don't use such correction
>             meaning that the
>                 property (say interfacial tension) is expected to
>             deviate more from
>                 the experimental value? This indicates that the system
>             behaves
>                 differently in comparison to the same simulation
>             conducted with
>                 correction?
>
>                 Many thanks,
>                 Aldi
>
>
>                 On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:44 AM, David van der Spoel
>             <spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>             <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>>
>             wrote:
>              > On 2011-03-12 06.09, Denny Frost wrote:
>              >>
>              >> I am running MD simulations on Liquid/Liquid interfaces and
>                 measuring
>              >> the interfacial tension between them.  I have found that the
>                 readings in
>              >> NVT simulations are close to experimental values, but
>             have a lot of
>              >> variation.  I run NPT simulations on the exact same
>             system and
>                 find the
>              >> results show very little variation, but the values are
>             far from
>              >> experimental results.  Does anyone know why this happens?
>              >>
>              > Please be more specific. How do you do NPT simulations?
>             This may
>                 influence
>              > the result. To get good result I would suggest to do pressure
>                 coupling only
>              > in the normal direction and to turn off dispersion
>             corrections to the
>              > pressure.
>              >
>              > --
>              > David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>              > Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
>              > Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
>              > spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>             <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>
>
>             http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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>         --
>         David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>         Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
>         Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
>         spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>         http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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-- 
David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:	+46184714205.
spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se    http://folding.bmc.uu.se



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