[gmx-users] Surface tension readings in NVT vs NPT simulations

Denny Frost dsfrost at cableone.net
Sat Mar 12 17:36:15 CET 2011


It won't take zero with the berendsen thermostat, but I only wish to do weak
coupling for now.  Yes, I only specified the two values for semiisotropic.
What I'm asking is will this setup only do z-pressure coupling?

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 9:32 AM, David van der Spoel
<spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>wrote:

> On 2011-03-12 17.28, Denny Frost wrote:
>
>> No, it requires six, acutally, for aniisotropic coupling.  I decided to
>> use semi-isotropic coupling with the xy compressibilities set to 4.5e-15
>> (it won't accept 0).  This should keep the walls parallel to the z axis
>> from moving and accomplish the same thing.  Does this sound right?
>>
>>  with semiisotropic you need only two values, with anisotropic either 3 or
> 6 values. Zero compressibility should work.
>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 9:24 AM, David van der Spoel
>> <spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>> wrote:
>>
>>    On 2011-03-12 17.17, Denny Frost wrote:
>>
>>        Thanks for answering that question about dispersion, that makes
>>        sense.
>>        Also, The values I currently get with NPT are around 58 mN/m,
>>        while the
>>        average values I get for NVT are around 16 mN/m, but with a
>>        variance of
>>        nearly 100% of that value.  I'm beginning to see why you only do
>>        pressure coupling in the z direction, but gromacs 4.5.3 won't
>>        let you
>>        specify tau_p = 0.  Any other way to do pressure coupling in
>>        just the z
>>        direction?
>>
>>    check manual.
>>    maybe there is only one tau_p value.
>>
>>        Denny
>>
>>        On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Denny Frost
>>        <dsfrost at cableone.net <mailto:dsfrost at cableone.net>
>>        <mailto:dsfrost at cableone.net <mailto:dsfrost at cableone.net>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>            Is that using anisotropic pressure coupling?
>>
>>
>>            On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:55 AM, David van der Spoel
>>        <spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>                On 2011-03-12 16.45, Denny Frost wrote:
>>
>>                    I have run NPT simulations using isotropic and
>>        semiisotropic
>>                    coupling
>>                    with the same results.  I have never done coupling
>>        in just
>>                    one direction
>>                    though, how do you do this?.  I have never used
>>        Dispersion
>>                    corrections.
>>                    It seems to me that this would help, rather than
>>        hurt though
>>                    since, as
>>                    Aldi said, it will make the system closer to
>>        experimental
>>                    values.  I
>>                    will give this a try and see what happens.  My question
>>                    still remains -
>>                    why do NPT and NVT simulations give such different
>>        values
>>                    for surface
>>                    tension?
>>                    Denny Frost
>>
>>
>>                You don't give any values so it is hard to judge.
>>                - NVT may have completely wrong pressure
>>                - Dispersion correction assumes a homogeneous system as
>>        regards
>>                the average disperson constant per volume, which you
>>        probably do
>>                not have. E.g. in an ice/water surface dispersion
>>        correction may
>>                induce melting.
>>
>>                The dispersion correction is *not* to bring your system
>>        closer
>>                to experiment but rather to correct for the use of a
>>        cut-off.
>>
>>                - Coupling in one direction: specify e.g.
>>                ref-p = 0 0 1
>>                compressibility = 0 0 4e-5
>>                tau_p = 0 0 5
>>
>>
>>                    On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:40 AM, aldi asmadi
>>        <aldi.asmadi at gmail.com <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>
>>        <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>>
>>        <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>
>>        <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com <mailto:aldi.asmadi at gmail.com>>>>
>>
>>        wrote:
>>
>>                        David,
>>
>>                        I have a question that is still related to your
>>        reply.
>>                      If the bulk
>>                        liquid NPT and the interfacial liquid-vapor NVT
>>                    simulations are
>>                        performed using dispersion corrections to the
>>        pressure
>>                    and energy,
>>                        while the intefacial liquid-liquid NPAT
>>        simulation don't
>>                    use any
>>                        correction, can we say that all results are
>>        valid since
>>                    we don't give
>>                        the same treatment for all systems?
>>
>>                        In the NPT and NVT calculations, we apply
>>        corrections in
>>                    order to
>>                        reduce the discrepancy between the calculated and
>>                    experimental
>>                        properties (say density and surface tension) as
>>        small as
>>                    possible.
>>                        Here we have more confidence that our molecules in
>>                    systems behave
>>                        accordingly judging from the macroscopic values we
>>                    obtain.  Meanwhile,
>>                        in the NPAT calculation, we don't use such
>>        correction
>>                    meaning that the
>>                        property (say interfacial tension) is expected to
>>                    deviate more from
>>                        the experimental value? This indicates that the
>>        system
>>                    behaves
>>                        differently in comparison to the same simulation
>>                    conducted with
>>                        correction?
>>
>>                        Many thanks,
>>                        Aldi
>>
>>
>>                        On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:44 AM, David van der
>>        Spoel
>>        <spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>>>
>>
>>                    wrote:
>>         > On 2011-03-12 06.09, Denny Frost wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> I am running MD simulations on Liquid/Liquid interfaces and
>>                        measuring
>>         >> the interfacial tension between them.  I have found that the
>>                        readings in
>>         >> NVT simulations are close to experimental values, but
>>                    have a lot of
>>         >> variation.  I run NPT simulations on the exact same
>>                    system and
>>                        find the
>>         >> results show very little variation, but the values are
>>                    far from
>>         >> experimental results.  Does anyone know why this happens?
>>         >>
>>         > Please be more specific. How do you do NPT simulations?
>>                    This may
>>                        influence
>>         > the result. To get good result I would suggest to do pressure
>>                        coupling only
>>         > in the normal direction and to turn off dispersion
>>                    corrections to the
>>         > pressure.
>>         >
>>         > --
>>         > David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>>         > Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
>>         > Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
>>         > spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>>
>>
>>
>>        http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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>>                --
>>                David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>>                Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
>>                Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
>>        spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>        <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>>
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>>    --
>>    David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>>    Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
>>    Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
>>    spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se <mailto:spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se>
>>    http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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>
> --
> David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
> Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205.
> spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se    http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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