[gmx-users] g_order output is mirrored

Justin A. Lemkul jalemkul at vt.edu
Wed May 18 15:14:03 CEST 2011



Igor Marques wrote:
> dear all,
> 
> 
> after justin contribution, the SN2 chain plot now looks a little different:
> sn2_new.png
> http://imm.io/5JAZ
> 
> the real matter of this e-mail, although i really appreciate the help 
> justin has provided regarding the proper use of this tool, is the fact 
> that my plot looks mirrored from the one i've previously referred, from 
> Jojart and Martinek --> http://i.imm.io/5IGl.png
> forgetting, for now, the SN2 chain, harder to analyse, what i really 
> found weird is the fact that SN1 is mirroring the published results:
> sn1_new.png
> http://imm.io/5JCi
> 
> 
> so, for segment 2, the first they analyze, in the filled triangle line 
> the value is around 0.35, while for the 14th segment the value is about 
> 0.28. in my case, the order is the other way around! my SN1 starts with 
> a low value that is increased through the chain! (0.24 --> 0.29).
> 
> should i change the order of the chain in the index files? although that 
> makes the plot resemble the ones already published, i don't think that 
> is the definitive solution to this problem!
> 

Definitely not.  If you look at the sn-2 chain, even counting backwards doesn't 
place the unsaturation in the right place.

Are you sure the membrane hasn't entered a gel phase?  Are other parameters 
(APL, membrane thickness, density, etc) reasonable for the conditions applied? 
I can't reproduce this as a problem in g_order 4.0.7 or 4.5.3 - my POPC 
membranes look fine (granted, I've used a different force field than you, but my 
results match almost exactly with what Jojart and Martinek show).

If everything else in the data analysis looks normal, I am willing to help you 
look into this if you send me (off-list):

1. A coordinate file
2. A .tpr file
3. Any index files you're using

-Justin

> (this applies also to the DMPC chains of my colleague)
> 
> best regards!
> igor
> 
>       Igor Marques
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Igor Marques <igor.dragon88 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:igor.dragon88 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>           Igor Marques
> 
> 
>     On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Justin A. Lemkul <jalemkul at vt.edu
>     <mailto:jalemkul at vt.edu>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>         Igor Marques wrote:
> 
>         <snip>
> 
> 
>                2. Can you post your .ndx file?
>                for sn1 chain:
> 
>             Reading structure file
>             Going to read 1 old index file(s)
> 
> 
>         Not exactly what I was going for (I wanted to see the contents
>         of the .ndx file), but...
> 
> 
>              0 C12_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              1 C29_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              2 C30_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              3 C31_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              4 C32_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              5 C33_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              6 C34_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              7 C35_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              8 C36_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              9 C37_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              10 C38_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              11 C39_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              12 C40_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              13 C41_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              14 C42_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
> 
> 
>         Here you only have 15 carbons.  The sn-1 (palmitoyl) should be 16.
> 
> 
>             for sn2 chain:
>             Reading structure file
>             Going to read 1 old index file(s)
> 
>              0 C9_&_r_1-72         :    72 atoms
>              1 C13_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              2 C14_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              3 C15_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              4 C16_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              5 C17_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              6 C18_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              7 C19_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              8 C20_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              9 C21_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              10 C22_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              11 C23_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              12 C24_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              13 C25_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              14 C26_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              15 C27_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
>              16 C28_&_r_1-72        :    72 atoms
> 
> 
>         And the same here - 17 groups instead of 18.  I'm not familiar
>         with the numbering, but it seems odd to jump from, e.g., C9 to
>         C13 - are you sure your first carbon (C9) is not in the glycerol
>         backbone rather than the ester?
>         i'll also take a careful look into this! and the numbering is
>         just like this. don't ask! ;)
> 
> 
>                3. What is your command for the sn-2 chain?  You cannot
>             obtain
>                unsaturated and saturated order parameters in the same
>             command.  You
>                must do them separately, and the index groups are
>             different.  For
>                instance, to get the order parameters around the
>             unsaturation, your
>                index file should contain only Cn-1, Cn, Cn+1, Cn+2,
>             where Cn and
>                Cn+1 are the C atoms joined by the double bond.  Then run
>             g_order
>                with the -unsat option.  These values can then replace the
>                corresponding carbon positions in the g_order output of
>             the whole
>                sn-2 chain.  If done improperly, you can get weird results.
>                the command is actually the same with the apropriate
>             index file...
>                maybe this is the problem for POPC - i'll look at it
>             carefully!
> 
> 
>         Then this is certainly a problem.
>         i'll look at it with my colleague. if our problem persists,
>         we'll get back in touch!
> 
> 
>     thanks again! ^^ 
> 
> 
>              
>                4. What are the simulation conditions?  Are you trying to
>             replicate
>                the published work?  Different simulations conditions
>             will certainly
>                impact the structural parameters, and insufficient
>             sampling can give
>                weird looking curves, as well.  All it might mean is that
>             your data
>                are not yet well-converged.
>                NPT, surface tension of 40 dyn/cm, t=310 K, GAFF force
>             field. the
>                plot represents the last 10 of 150 ns of production -
>             however, it
>                presents the same behavior in longer (200 ns) simulations!
> 
> 
>         I'd suspect the index file(s) and/or g_order commands rather
>         than convergence issues, in this case.
> 
>         -Justin
> 
> 
>             thanks!
>              
>                -Justin
> 
> 
>                    best regards and thanks in advance!
> 
>                         Igor Marques
> 
> 
>                --     ========================================
> 
>                Justin A. Lemkul
>                Ph.D. Candidate
>                ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
>                MILES-IGERT Trainee
>                Department of Biochemistry
>                Virginia Tech
>                Blacksburg, VA
>                jalemkul[at]vt.edu <http://vt.edu> <http://vt.edu> |
>             (540) 231-9080
> 
> 
>                http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
> 
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> 
>         -- 
>         ========================================
> 
>         Justin A. Lemkul
>         Ph.D. Candidate
>         ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
>         MILES-IGERT Trainee
>         Department of Biochemistry
>         Virginia Tech
>         Blacksburg, VA
>         jalemkul[at]vt.edu <http://vt.edu> | (540) 231-9080
>         http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
> 
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-- 
========================================

Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

========================================



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