[gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes

[ms]

On 19/12/12 15:31, Lee-Ping Wang wrote:
> I agree with Michael that a moderate solution would best serve our
> collective motivations as developers and contributors.

Moderation, as an absolute concept, doesn't exist. Everything can be 
"extreme" or "moderate", depending on where you are in your opinions. I 
personally see this "moderate solution" as a rather extreme example of 
self-censorship.


> I don't think free
> speech is the issue; rather, the main issue is that everything has
> consequences, and it's in our best interest to voluntarily avoid saying
> things that might endanger the important goal of having a broad and
> inclusive user base.

Gmx devels can do what they want, but I'd advice *against* bending over 
backwards to a prudish, thin-skinned and overall unscientific user base.

>
> Thanks,
>
> - Lee-Ping
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org
> [mailto:gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org] On Behalf Of Shirts, Michael
> (mrs5pt)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:05 AM
> To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>
> Just because one should be allowed to say something doesn't mean its a wise
> thing to say it.  To take it to the extreme, if the quotes consisted of a
> string of expletives-laden insults, then one could understand how users
> might feel uncomfortable, and it would drive users away for no realistic
> purpose (at least, no purpose related to science).
>
> Self-censorship CAN be the worst kind of censorship, but filtering out what
> speech has the desired result and what speech is counterproductive is what
> allows people to actually interact with each other in a civil manner. It's a
> matter of whether one chooses not to say something out of fear, or because
> it's a counterproductive thing to say.
>
> Best,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Michael Shirts
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> University of Virginia
> michael.shirts at virginia.edu
> (434)-243-1821
>
>
>> From: ms <devicerandom at gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
>> <gmx-developers at gromacs.org>
>> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 13:04:19 +0100
>> To: <gmx-developers at gromacs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>>
>> FWIW, I think no self censorship is in order, at all, and I'd be
>> seriously disappointed if these suggestions are accepted.
>>
>> Quotes can be disabled by an environment variable, so it's not like
>> they're forced down people's throat. If people *still* get offended at
>> the quotes, they are welcome to use some other software. Self
>> censorship is the worst kind of censorship, and everytime we abide to
>> "sensitivity", we are disintegrating the right for freedom of speech.
>> Everything is potentially offensive for someone. Given this logic, one
>> day will we stop using evolutionary algorithms, for example, to avoid
>> offending creationists? This may seem silly, but I'm sure it could happen.
>>
>> Since we talk of quotes, here's one by John Stuart Mill:
>>
>> "Strange it is that men should admit the validity of the arguments for
>> free speech but object to their being "pushed to an extreme", not
>> seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are
>> not good for any case."
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14/12/12 21:55, Shirts, Michael (mrs5pt) wrote:
>>> FYI, from my student.  We also have to turn these off in F at H to avoid
>>> complaints.
>>>
>>> Might it be time to retire the quotes? Do we feel it has that much of
>>> a purpose?  I wonder if it's causing more trouble than it's worth . . .
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Michael Shirts
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>>> University of Virginia
>>> michael.shirts at virginia.edu
>>> (434)-243-1821
>>>
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>> From: Joe Basconi <jbasconi at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:52:04 -0500
>>>> To: <michael.shirts at virginia.edu>
>>>> Subject: Gromacs quotes
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Shirts,
>>>>
>>>> Just wondering, what's the control process for the little gcq quotes
>>>> Gromacs prints when you run a binary?
>>>>
>>>> Most are amusing but some seem to be in poor taste, especially on a
>>>> day like today getting #239, "killing children... " by some software
> company.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure how these are chosen, but would you feel comfortable
>>>> putting in a word to get things like that out of there? I could
>>>> email if that would be better.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>
>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
>> http://devicerandom.org
>> --
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-- 
Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
http://devicerandom.org