[gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes

Wed Dec 19 16:37:52 CET 2012

I sometimes have that feeling, right after saying something blunt, going
"Oh, I shouldn't have said that", or "Me and my big mouth". Now I see how
that makes me bend over backwards to a prudish, thin-skinned and, if
relevant, unscientific populace. It's an inner drive to self-censorship I
should do away with. Of course, the consequence may be that I end up
feeling pretty lonely. But the freedom of speech is at stake! If people
don't like you because you don't give in to self-censorship, it's their
fault! Yet, the outcome may be lonely...

What the heck. Let's bend over backwards a little bit to those prudish,
think-skinned and overall unscientific user base. Maybe we can teach them a
thing or two with the other quotes...

T.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 4:04 PM, ms <devicerandom at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 19/12/12 15:31, Lee-Ping Wang wrote:
>
>> I agree with Michael that a moderate solution would best serve our
>> collective motivations as developers and contributors.
>>
>
> Moderation, as an absolute concept, doesn't exist. Everything can be
> "extreme" or "moderate", depending on where you are in your opinions. I
> personally see this "moderate solution" as a rather extreme example of
> self-censorship.
>
>
>
>  I don't think free
>> speech is the issue; rather, the main issue is that everything has
>> consequences, and it's in our best interest to voluntarily avoid saying
>> things that might endanger the important goal of having a broad and
>> inclusive user base.
>>
>
> Gmx devels can do what they want, but I'd advice *against* bending over
> backwards to a prudish, thin-skinned and overall unscientific user base.
>
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - Lee-Ping
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmx-developers-bounces@**gromacs.org<gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org>
>> [mailto:gmx-developers-**bounces at gromacs.org<gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org>]
>> On Behalf Of Shirts, Michael
>> (mrs5pt)
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:05 AM
>> To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
>> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>>
>> Just because one should be allowed to say something doesn't mean its a
>> wise
>> thing to say it.  To take it to the extreme, if the quotes consisted of a
>> string of expletives-laden insults, then one could understand how users
>> might feel uncomfortable, and it would drive users away for no realistic
>> purpose (at least, no purpose related to science).
>>
>> Self-censorship CAN be the worst kind of censorship, but filtering out
>> what
>> speech has the desired result and what speech is counterproductive is what
>> allows people to actually interact with each other in a civil manner.
>> It's a
>> matter of whether one chooses not to say something out of fear, or because
>> it's a counterproductive thing to say.
>>
>> Best,
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Michael Shirts
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>> University of Virginia
>> michael.shirts at virginia.edu
>> (434)-243-1821
>>
>>
>>  From: ms <devicerandom at gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
>>> <gmx-developers at gromacs.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 13:04:19 +0100
>>> To: <gmx-developers at gromacs.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>>>
>>> FWIW, I think no self censorship is in order, at all, and I'd be
>>> seriously disappointed if these suggestions are accepted.
>>>
>>> Quotes can be disabled by an environment variable, so it's not like
>>> they're forced down people's throat. If people *still* get offended at
>>> the quotes, they are welcome to use some other software. Self
>>> censorship is the worst kind of censorship, and everytime we abide to
>>> "sensitivity", we are disintegrating the right for freedom of speech.
>>> Everything is potentially offensive for someone. Given this logic, one
>>> day will we stop using evolutionary algorithms, for example, to avoid
>>> offending creationists? This may seem silly, but I'm sure it could
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> Since we talk of quotes, here's one by John Stuart Mill:
>>>
>>> "Strange it is that men should admit the validity of the arguments for
>>> free speech but object to their being "pushed to an extreme", not
>>> seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are
>>> not good for any case."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14/12/12 21:55, Shirts, Michael (mrs5pt) wrote:
>>>
>>>> FYI, from my student.  We also have to turn these off in F at H to avoid
>>>> complaints.
>>>>
>>>> Might it be time to retire the quotes? Do we feel it has that much of
>>>> a purpose?  I wonder if it's causing more trouble than it's worth . . .
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Michael Shirts
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>>>> University of Virginia
>>>> michael.shirts at virginia.edu
>>>> (434)-243-1821
>>>>
>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>
>>>>> From: Joe Basconi <jbasconi at gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:52:04 -0500
>>>>> To: <michael.shirts at virginia.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Gromacs quotes
>>>>>
>>>>> Prof. Shirts,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wondering, what's the control process for the little gcq quotes
>>>>> Gromacs prints when you run a binary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Most are amusing but some seem to be in poor taste, especially on a
>>>>> day like today getting #239, "killing children... " by some software
>>>>>
>>>> company.
>>
>>>
>>>>> Not sure how these are chosen, but would you feel comfortable
>>>>> putting in a word to get things like that out of there? I could
>>>>> email if that would be better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
>>> http://devicerandom.org
>>> --
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>>
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>
> --
> Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
> http://devicerandom.org
> --
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-- 
Tsjerk A. Wassenaar, Ph.D.

post-doctoral researcher
Biocomputing Group
Department of Biological Sciences
2500 University Drive NW
Calgary, AB T2N 1N4
Canada
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