[gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
ms
devicerandom at gmail.com
Wed Dec 19 17:28:29 CET 2012
On 19/12/12 16:37, Tsjerk Wassenaar wrote:
> I sometimes have that feeling, right after saying something blunt, going
> "Oh, I shouldn't have said that", or "Me and my big mouth". Now I see
> how that makes me bend over backwards to a prudish, thin-skinned and, if
> relevant, unscientific populace. It's an inner drive to self-censorship
> I should do away with. Of course, the consequence may be that I end up
> feeling pretty lonely. But the freedom of speech is at stake! If people
> don't like you because you don't give in to self-censorship, it's their
> fault! Yet, the outcome may be lonely...
It's funny you say that to be sarcastic, clearly, but that's pretty much
how I feel and reason. I see being blunt as a positive thing, and I feel
usually bad for the opposite, like "I *should* have said that, why
didn't I?". I prefer to have less friends but good ones, than having a
lot of people around that like me but that I couldn't care less. I don't
care about being lonely sometimes, I'd rather have that than being
around lots of shallow people who are easily offended.
Of course this means I'm not very good at networking, and this is a big
no-no in academia. Whatever, that's what I am, and trust me: I'm really,
really packed of character flaws and other wrong things I should correct
of myself: but talking straight is not one of these.
Anyway, if you gmx devels decide to do the quote-cleaning, that's fine
by me. It's just a bit sad, and not what I'd have done. But it's *your*
software, and thus it has to be your choice: not mine, nor that of
people who ask you to self censor. :)
> What the heck. Let's bend over backwards a little bit to those prudish,
> think-skinned and overall unscientific user base. Maybe we can teach
> them a thing or two with the other quotes...
I think we should teach them there is no right not to be offended, but
well... :)
> T.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 4:04 PM, ms <devicerandom at gmail.com
> <mailto:devicerandom at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 19/12/12 15:31, Lee-Ping Wang wrote:
>
> I agree with Michael that a moderate solution would best serve our
> collective motivations as developers and contributors.
>
>
> Moderation, as an absolute concept, doesn't exist. Everything can be
> "extreme" or "moderate", depending on where you are in your
> opinions. I personally see this "moderate solution" as a rather
> extreme example of self-censorship.
>
>
>
> I don't think free
> speech is the issue; rather, the main issue is that everything has
> consequences, and it's in our best interest to voluntarily avoid
> saying
> things that might endanger the important goal of having a broad and
> inclusive user base.
>
>
> Gmx devels can do what they want, but I'd advice *against* bending
> over backwards to a prudish, thin-skinned and overall unscientific
> user base.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Lee-Ping
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmx-developers-bounces at __gromacs.org
> <mailto:gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org>
> [mailto:gmx-developers-__bounces at gromacs.org
> <mailto:gmx-developers-bounces at gromacs.org>] On Behalf Of
> Shirts, Michael
> (mrs5pt)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:05 AM
> To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>
> Just because one should be allowed to say something doesn't mean
> its a wise
> thing to say it. To take it to the extreme, if the quotes
> consisted of a
> string of expletives-laden insults, then one could understand
> how users
> might feel uncomfortable, and it would drive users away for no
> realistic
> purpose (at least, no purpose related to science).
>
> Self-censorship CAN be the worst kind of censorship, but
> filtering out what
> speech has the desired result and what speech is
> counterproductive is what
> allows people to actually interact with each other in a civil
> manner. It's a
> matter of whether one chooses not to say something out of fear,
> or because
> it's a counterproductive thing to say.
>
> Best,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Michael Shirts
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> University of Virginia
> michael.shirts at virginia.edu <mailto:michael.shirts at virginia.edu>
> (434)-243-1821 <tel:%28434%29-243-1821>
>
>
> From: ms <devicerandom at gmail.com
> <mailto:devicerandom at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS development
> <gmx-developers at gromacs.org <mailto:gmx-developers at gromacs.org>>
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 13:04:19 +0100
> To: <gmx-developers at gromacs.org
> <mailto:gmx-developers at gromacs.org>>
> Subject: Re: [gmx-developers] FW: Gromacs quotes
>
> FWIW, I think no self censorship is in order, at all, and I'd be
> seriously disappointed if these suggestions are accepted.
>
> Quotes can be disabled by an environment variable, so it's
> not like
> they're forced down people's throat. If people *still* get
> offended at
> the quotes, they are welcome to use some other software. Self
> censorship is the worst kind of censorship, and everytime we
> abide to
> "sensitivity", we are disintegrating the right for freedom
> of speech.
> Everything is potentially offensive for someone. Given this
> logic, one
> day will we stop using evolutionary algorithms, for example,
> to avoid
> offending creationists? This may seem silly, but I'm sure it
> could happen.
>
> Since we talk of quotes, here's one by John Stuart Mill:
>
> "Strange it is that men should admit the validity of the
> arguments for
> free speech but object to their being "pushed to an
> extreme", not
> seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case,
> they are
> not good for any case."
>
>
>
> On 14/12/12 21:55, Shirts, Michael (mrs5pt) wrote:
>
> FYI, from my student. We also have to turn these off in
> F at H to avoid
> complaints.
>
> Might it be time to retire the quotes? Do we feel it has
> that much of
> a purpose? I wonder if it's causing more trouble than
> it's worth . . .
>
> Best,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Michael Shirts
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> University of Virginia
> michael.shirts at virginia.edu
> <mailto:michael.shirts at virginia.edu>
> (434)-243-1821 <tel:%28434%29-243-1821>
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
>
> From: Joe Basconi <jbasconi at gmail.com
> <mailto:jbasconi at gmail.com>>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:52:04 -0500
> To: <michael.shirts at virginia.edu
> <mailto:michael.shirts at virginia.edu>>
> Subject: Gromacs quotes
>
> Prof. Shirts,
>
> Just wondering, what's the control process for the
> little gcq quotes
> Gromacs prints when you run a binary?
>
> Most are amusing but some seem to be in poor taste,
> especially on a
> day like today getting #239, "killing children... "
> by some software
>
> company.
>
>
> Not sure how these are chosen, but would you feel
> comfortable
> putting in a word to get things like that out of
> there? I could
> email if that would be better.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joe
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
>
> --
> Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
> http://devicerandom.org
> --
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>
> --
> Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
> http://devicerandom.org
> --
> gmx-developers mailing list
> gmx-developers at gromacs.org <mailto:gmx-developers at gromacs.org>
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>
>
>
> --
> Tsjerk A. Wassenaar, Ph.D.
>
> post-doctoral researcher
> Biocomputing Group
> Department of Biological Sciences
> 2500 University Drive NW
> Calgary, AB T2N 1N4
> Canada
>
>
--
Massimo Sandal, Ph.D.
http://devicerandom.org
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