[gmx-users] Netiquette on the gromacs user list?
David van der Spoel
spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se
Thu Feb 23 11:03:32 CET 2006
Yegor Isakov wrote:
> That is not about any kind of etiquette. Despite enormous efforts of
> those developers the package is barely usefull, that is it.
>
If this is your opinion on the software, fine. You are not obliged to
use it, there are quite a few alternatives out there.
Maybe it is time to cut this discussion short. In general people tend to
be more helpful if treated with respect, not only on this mailing list.
So if you need help it is a good idea to ask politely. In addition the
answers by anyone on the list, not just the developers, are given in a
spirit of cooperation. If it takes little effort to help someone, why
wouldn't you or I do that? Those answering are hereby asked to remain
polite as well... I propose to close the discussion for now.
Constructive criticism is welcome, as are bug reports (preferably
through the automated system http://bugzilla.gromacs.org).
> */Daan van Aalten <vdava at davapc1.bioch.dundee.ac.uk>/* wrote:
>
>
> Dear Daniela
>
> Sorry, but I have to agree with Mark Abraham here.
>
> Although I haven't done much useful development myself apart from
> perhaps
> PRODRG, the tone of some of the questions asked absolutely amazes me.
> There seems to be no respect for the huge amount of work developers put
> into a package like Gromacs - new people come in and "just expect it to
> work" and if it doesn't then of course it's not their fault but that of
> the developers. Gromacs is *free* and the developers have no formal
> obligation whatsoever to help you in any way. I am sure everyone
> involved with Gromacs is keen to continually improve the code and would
> like to here about problems/bugs etc - but in properly worded E-mails,
> giving constructive feedback, not some kind of shouting match.
>
> I normally think that E-mails like that of Yegor Isakov don't even
> deserve
> a response, but yours does as it is an important point of dicussion.
>
> Daan
>
>
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Daniela S. Mueller wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 12:42 +1100, Mark Abraham wrote:
> > > Yegor Isakov wrote:
> > >
> > > You are much more likely to get a helpful response from the
> people who
> > > know this software best (the programmers, who do read this
> list) if you
> > > express a little less of your frustration, and imply less
> condemnation
> > > of their software design choices, which you probably don't
> understand
> > > yet anyway!
> > >
> >
> > though it might be unpleasant or even unjustified, frustrated
> reactions
> > like these are in a way understandable.
> >
> > what i find less understandable and certainly a great deal less
> > tolerable, is the arrogance and judgement of some users of this list
> > towards others.
> >
> > also it would make helpful responses much likelier, if those
> unhelpful
> > responses were omitted.
> >
> > regards,
> > daniela
> >
> >
> > > Check your assumptions - you haven't paid anybody for the right
> to rant
> > > at them :-) You'd also do well to remember that GROMACS doesn't
> come
> > > with a warranty of fitness for any purpose :-)
> > >
> > > > I would be extremely pleased if anybody would tell me how
> could I foce
> > > > that stupid pdb2gmx program to follow the path to the directory
> > > > containing .itp files (~/share/top).
> > >
> > > Setting the environment variable GMXLIB makes various GROMACS
> utilities
> > > look there instead of the default, which is probably
> > > $GMXDATA/gromacs/top. GMXDATA gets set when you run GMXRC which is
> > > installed in the same place as the GROMACS binaries. You may
> need to
> > > link the existing contents of $GMXDATA/gromacs/top/ to
> ~/share/top/ in
> > > order to have everything work, as I couldn't get GMXLIB to
> accept a path.
> > >
> > > I note that the manual mentions GMXLIB only in passing in a few
> of the
> > > programs' man pages, and not at all in the Appendix section on
> > > Environment variables. Usage of GMXRC is also not mentioned in the
> > > installation section on the web page. Can either of both of
> these be
> > > looked at, please?
> > >
> > > > Although in the manual it was recomended to avoid modifying
> .rtp files,
> > > > that is the only way I found to produce a topology
> "semi-automatically."
> > > > Is there any other reasonable way to produce a topology? Is
> anywhere
> > > > more intelegent converter of pdb files? Is anywhere a program
> that
> > > > permits creating a stable bond between 2 atoms in a topolgy
> without
> > > > blowing up the last one?
> > >
> > > Construction of topologies for MM calculations is a process that
> > > involves making judgements. Automating "sensible" defaults is an
> > > extremely tricky business, given the multiplicity of force
> fields, the
> > > kinds of kludgey PDB files that you can get hit with, and the
> > > innumerability of the molecules people will want to use. Then
> of course,
> > > a default someone thinks is sensible, someone else will think is
> > > ludicrous, and they might both be right for different applications.
> > > Basically you will need to do some work yourself if you are doing
> > > something new... big surprise.
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Daniela S. Mueller
> >
> > biologist (Diplom, German degree)
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > - Molecular Dynamics Group, UQ -
> >
> > Address:
> > School of Molecular and Microbial Sciences (SMMS)
> > Chemistry Building (#68)
> > University of Queensland
> > Qld 4072, Brisbane
> > Australia
> >
> > Phone: +61-7-33653732
> >
> > Website: http://ilc00f.facbacs.uq.edu.au/SMMS/a_mark/Front.htm
> >
> >
> **********************************************************************
> >
> > - MD group, RuG -
> >
> > Address:
> > Molecular Dynamics
> > Dept. of Biophysical Chemistry
> > University of Groningen
> > Nijenborgh 4
> > 9747 AG Groningen
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > Website: http://www.rug.nl/gbb/md
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
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> >
>
>
> ##############################################################################
> Dr. Daan van Aalten Wellcome Trust Senior Fellow / Reader
> Wellcome Trust Biocentre, Dow Street TEL: ++ 44 1382 344979
> Div. of Biol.Chem. & Mol.Microbiology FAX: ++ 44 1382 345764
> School of Life Sciences E-mail: see WWW page
> Univ. of Dundee, Dundee DD1 5EH, UK WWW:
> http://davapc1.bioch.dundee.ac.uk
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--
David.
________________________________________________________________________
David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone: 46 18 471 4205 fax: 46 18 511 755
spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se spoel at gromacs.org http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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