[gmx-users] is the tip4p MW velocity treated differently in gromacs 3 vs 4

Berk Hess gmx3 at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 4 09:03:29 CET 2009


Hi,

I always get confused by the atom names in TIP4P.
But MW is not a mass, but the vsite, right?
Velocities of vsites are completely irrelevant, except if you would want to analyze them.
I might have changed something to the initial velocities of vsites for 4.0.
I would guess that 4.0 has the correct initial vsite velocities,
but I would have to check to be sure.
Again, velocities of vsites do are completely irrelevant for anything,
except printing them in the output.

Berk

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 08:25:35 +0100
> From: spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se
> To: gmx-users at gromacs.org
> Subject: Re: [gmx-users] is the tip4p MW velocity treated differently in	gromacs 3 vs 4
> 
> Chris Neale wrote:
> > contrary to my previous stament, I am no longer convinced that it is 
> > simply an initial constraints issue.
> 
> There are two things to do:
> 1. run gmx3.3 and gmx4.0 with the 3.3 tpr file. This should give the 
> same result in principle.
> 2. run gmx3.3 and gmx4.0 with their own tpr files. Here you can use 
> gmxcheck -s1 -s2 to compare the files.
> 
> The differences due to initial constraints are small usually, but they 
> seem comparable in your case. Defining flexible should remove all 
> difference due to constraints (unless constraints are turned on in the 
> mdp file which selects LINCS over the default SETTLE).
> 
> Anyway it is important to distinguish the apples from the oranges, hence 
> point 1 is the best to test it. Obviously you are aware that the MW 
> velocity does not in anyway influence the energy or the dynamics, since 
> it merely shows the displacement of the particle divided by the time 
> step. Therefore it would be good to compare energies as well from a 3.3 
> run and a 4.0 run.
> 
> > 
> > In my last post, I stated: "when I define -DFLEXIBLE and make the tpr 
> > using gromacs 3 and then run using gromacs 4, I do get gromacs 4 - 
> > identical velocities.". However, thinking more on this has me believing 
> > that this only indicates that the difference occurs at the mdrun stage.
> > 
> > I did a few more tests to see what the difference was when turning on or 
> > off the unconstrained start option
> > in either gromacs 3 or gromacs 4. I see a very small diffence in 
> > velocities compared to the MW difference between
> > gromacs 3 or gromacs 4 mdruns.
> > 
> > Below showing gromacs 4, using unconstrained_start=no vs. 
> > unconstrained_start=yes has differences, but very minor.
> > 
> > diff gmx4.0.3_noUCS/feoff.gro gmx4.0.3/feoff.gro ...
> > <    51SOL     OW 1151   6.816   4.071   1.558  0.0549  0.4777 -0.4315
> > <    51SOL    HW1 1152   6.851   4.082   1.470 -0.1304  0.6992 -0.4795
> > <    51SOL    HW2 1153   6.727   4.106   1.553 -0.2840 -0.3333 -0.3852
> > <    52SOL     OW 1155   3.564   2.550   1.079  0.0951  0.0648  0.1748
> > <    52SOL    HW1 1156   3.521   2.598   1.009  1.5023  0.4847 -0.4757
> > <    52SOL    HW2 1157   3.551   2.604   1.157  0.0156  0.5140 -0.1424
> > ---
> >>    51SOL     OW 1151   6.816   4.071   1.558  0.0554  0.4775 -0.4315
> >>    51SOL    HW1 1152   6.851   4.082   1.470 -0.1306  0.6992 -0.4793
> >>    51SOL    HW2 1153   6.727   4.106   1.553 -0.2903 -0.3308 -0.3857
> >>    52SOL     OW 1155   3.564   2.550   1.079  0.0951  0.0648  0.1747
> >>    52SOL    HW1 1156   3.521   2.598   1.009  1.5034  0.4843 -0.4719
> >>    52SOL    HW2 1157   3.551   2.604   1.157  0.0147  0.5151 -0.1438
> > ...
> > 
> > with some, but not all MW showing small differences:
> > <    54SOL     OW 1163   5.835   7.123   3.589 -0.0214 -0.1603  0.5173
> > <    54SOL    HW1 1164   5.788   7.068   3.651  0.4698 -0.5196  0.5833
> > <    54SOL    HW2 1165   5.841   7.208   3.632 -0.8849 -0.0052  0.3674
> > <    54SOL     MW 1166   5.830   7.127   3.602 -0.0578 -0.2071  0.4856
> > ---
> >>    54SOL     OW 1163   5.835   7.123   3.589 -0.0214 -0.1604  0.5172
> >>    54SOL    HW1 1164   5.788   7.068   3.651  0.4694 -0.5205  0.5835
> >>    54SOL    HW2 1165   5.841   7.208   3.632 -0.8844 -0.0018  0.3686
> >>    54SOL     MW 1166   5.829   7.127   3.602 -0.0578 -0.2071  0.4856
> > 
> > 
> > Below showing gromacs 3, using unconstrained_start=no vs. 
> > unconstrained_start=yes has differences, but very minor.
> > 
> > diff gmx3.3.1_noUCS/feoff.gro gmx3.3.1/feoff.gro ...
> > <    51SOL     OW 1151   6.816   4.071   1.558  0.0550  0.4778 -0.4315
> > <    51SOL    HW1 1152   6.851   4.082   1.470 -0.1304  0.6992 -0.4795
> > <    51SOL    HW2 1153   6.727   4.106   1.553 -0.2841 -0.3333 -0.3852
> > <    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0254 -0.0273  0.0172
> > <    52SOL     OW 1155   3.564   2.550   1.079  0.0951  0.0648  0.1749
> > <    52SOL    HW1 1156   3.521   2.598   1.009  1.5023  0.4846 -0.4757
> > <    52SOL    HW2 1157   3.551   2.604   1.157  0.0157  0.5140 -0.1425
> > <    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080 -0.0486  0.0225 -0.0022
> > ---
> >>    51SOL     OW 1151   6.816   4.071   1.558  0.0554  0.4775 -0.4315
> >>    51SOL    HW1 1152   6.851   4.082   1.470 -0.1306  0.6992 -0.4793
> >>    51SOL    HW2 1153   6.727   4.106   1.553 -0.2903 -0.3308 -0.3857
> >>    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0219 -0.0279  0.0237
> >>    52SOL     OW 1155   3.564   2.550   1.079  0.0951  0.0648  0.1747
> >>    52SOL    HW1 1156   3.521   2.598   1.009  1.5034  0.4843 -0.4719
> >>    52SOL    HW2 1157   3.551   2.604   1.157  0.0147  0.5151 -0.1438
> >>    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080 -0.0421  0.0144  0.0060
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > <    54SOL     OW 1163   5.835   7.123   3.589 -0.0215 -0.1603  0.5173
> > <    54SOL    HW1 1164   5.788   7.068   3.651  0.4698 -0.5196  0.5834
> > <    54SOL    HW2 1165   5.841   7.208   3.632 -0.8849 -0.0051  0.3674
> > <    54SOL     MW 1166   5.830   7.127   3.602  0.1837 -0.0398  0.1193
> > ---
> >>    54SOL     OW 1163   5.835   7.123   3.589 -0.0214 -0.1604  0.5172
> >>    54SOL    HW1 1164   5.788   7.068   3.651  0.4694 -0.5205  0.5835
> >>    54SOL    HW2 1165   5.841   7.208   3.632 -0.8844 -0.0018  0.3686
> >>    54SOL     MW 1166   5.830   7.127   3.602  0.1879 -0.0399  0.1103
> > ...
> > 
> > In the above cases, other specified .mdp options were:
> > 
> > integrator          =  md
> > comm_mode           =  linear
> > nstcomm             =  1
> > comm_grps           =  System
> > nstlist             =  5
> > ns_type             =  grid
> > pbc                 =  xyz
> > coulombtype         =  PME
> > rcoulomb            =  0.9
> > fourierspacing      =  0.12
> > pme_order           =  4
> > vdwtype             =  cut-off
> > rvdw_switch         =  0
> > rvdw                =  1.4
> > rlist               =  0.9
> > constraints         =  none
> > energygrps          =  System
> > nsteps              =  0
> > dt                  =  0.004
> > gen_vel             =  no
> > unconstrained-start =  <yes or no depending on the test>
> > 
> > ######
> > 
> > And note that if I set
> > constraints         =  all-bonds
> > constraint_algorithm=  lincs
> > lincs-iter          =  1
> > lincs-order         =  6
> > 
> > then the difference between unconstrained-start=yes or =no was similarly 
> > small.
> > 
> > Therefore it seems to me that something other than initial constraints 
> > is leading to this difference.
> > 
> > Chris.
> > 
> > -- original message --
> > 
> > Thanks David, you are correct about initial step constraints. More 
> > information inline below, but my question has been resolved.
> > 
> >  >Chris Neale wrote:
> >  >> Hello,
> >  >>
> >  >> Does anybody know if there is a reason why the .gro output velocities
> >  >> would be different for tip4p MW in a zero-step mdrun between gromacs 3
> >  >> and gromacs 4 (3.3.1 and 3.3.3 are the same, and are different from
> >  >> 4.0.2 and 4.0.3, which are themselves the same).
> >  >Is this with the same tpr?
> > 
> > This was utilizing a tpr generated by the same version of gromacs as was 
> > used from the mdrun (3.3.1 grompp for 3.3.1 mdrun, etc.) although the 
> > input was identical (with the exception of any undefined .mdp options 
> > whose default values changes between v3 and v4, although I can't think 
> > of one that affects only MW).
> > 
> > Based on your question, I did redo the 3.3.1 grompp to generate a single 
> > .tpr that was used for both 3.3.1 mdrun and 4.0.3 mdrun. The results are 
> > the same:
> > 
> > $ diff 4.gro 3.gro | head
> > 1156c1156
> > <    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0120  0.3740 -0.4572
> > ---
> >  >    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0219 -0.0279  0.0237
> > 1160c1160
> > <    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080  0.2917  0.2007  0.0277
> > ---
> >  >    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080 -0.0421  0.0144  0.0060
> > 
> >  >
> >  >It could have to do with initial step constraints.
> > 
> > I had considered that, but my .mdp uses unconstrained-start =  yes.
> > 
> > Based on your suggestion I have attempted setting:
> > 1. constraints = none (get the same difference)
> > 2. also define = -DFLEXIBLE (get the same difference)
> > 
> > However, when I define -DFLEXIBLE and make the tpr using gromacs 3 and 
> > then run using gromacs 4
> > I do get gromacs 4 - identical velocities.
> > 
> > $ diff 4from3.gro 4.gro | head
> > $ diff 4from3.gro 3.gro | head
> > 1156c1156
> > <    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0120  0.3740 -0.4572
> > ---
> >  >    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0219 -0.0279  0.0237
> > 1160c1160
> > <    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080  0.2917  0.2007  0.0277
> > ---
> >  >    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080 -0.0421  0.0144  0.0060
> > 1164c1164
> > <    53SOL     MW 1162   2.458   4.404   3.060 -0.0763  0.0165 -0.5712
> > 
> > So thank you, this explains it.
> > 
> > Chris.
> > 
> >  >>
> >  >> diff gmx4.0.3/feoff.gro gmx3.3.1/feoff.gro | head
> >  >> 1156c1156
> >  >> <    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0120  0.3740 -0.4572
> >  >> ---
> >  >>  >    51SOL     MW 1154   6.809   4.077   1.546  0.0219 -0.0279  0.0237
> >  >> 1160c1160
> >  >> <    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080  0.2917  0.2007  0.0277
> >  >> ---
> >  >>  >    52SOL     MW 1158   3.557   2.563   1.080 -0.0421  0.0144  0.0060
> >  >> ...
> >  >> (continues for all MW)
> >  >>
> >  >> This difference does not appear to be related to solvent optimization:
> >  >>
> >  >> $ diff gmx4.0.3/feoff.gro gmx4.0.3_GMX_NO_SOLV_OPT/feoff.gro
> >  >>
> >  >> I might just chalk this up to different mdp option defaults, but it
> >  >> seems strange that there is a difference for all MW, but not for any
> >  >> other atoms in the system.
> >  >>
> >  >> $ cat dpc50_md11.mdp
> >  >> integrator          =  md
> >  >> comm_mode           =  linear
> >  >> nstcomm             =  1
> >  >> comm_grps           =  System
> >  >> nstlist             =  5
> >  >> ns_type             =  grid
> >  >> pbc                 =  xyz
> >  >> coulombtype         =  PME
> >  >> rcoulomb            =  0.9
> >  >> fourierspacing      =  0.12
> >  >> pme_order           =  4
> >  >> vdwtype             =  cut-off
> >  >> rvdw_switch         =  0
> >  >> rvdw                =  1.4
> >  >> rlist               =  0.9
> >  >> constraints         =  all-bonds
> >  >> constraint_algorithm=  lincs
> >  >> lincs-iter          =  1
> >  >> lincs-order         =  6
> >  >> energygrps          =  System
> >  >> nsteps              =  0
> >  >> dt                  =  0.004
> >  >> gen_vel             =  no
> >  >> unconstrained-start =  yes
> >  >>
> >  >> Note that I explicitly included the tip4p.itp from gromacs 3.3.1 in 
> > both
> >  >> runs.
> >  >>
> >  >> Perhaps this is related to the gromacs 3 vsite problem?
> >  >> http://www.gromacs.org/pipermail/gmx-users/2008-November/037659.html
> >  >>
> >  >> Thanks,
> >  >> Chris.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> -- 
> David van der Spoel, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
> Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:	+46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
> spoel at xray.bmc.uu.se	spoel at gromacs.org   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> _______________________________________________
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