SV: SV: [gmx-users] diffusion coefficient with g_msd

Justin A. Lemkul jalemkul at vt.edu
Fri Jun 5 23:54:49 CEST 2009



Sarah Witzke wrote:
> Fra: gmx-users-bounces at gromacs.org på vegne af XAvier Periole
> Sendt: fr 05-06-2009 13:32
> Til: Discussion list for GROMACS users
> Emne: Re: SV: [gmx-users] diffusion coefficient with g_msd
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah Witzke wrote:
>> Dear XAvier,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much for your answer. I have posted my .mdp file in the bottom of the email - as I haven't specified comm_mode or nstcomm, the default values should be used -
>>
>> this is also confirmed in the .log file:
>>
>>    nstcomm              = 1
>>
>>    comm_mode            = Linear
>>  
> For bilayer systems it is often recommended to removed the solvent and
> bilayer separately,
> they may move in opposite directions and also you remove the COM of the
> system the
> solvent and bilayer might move on relative to the other.
> 
> Thank you very much for telling me that. I'm sorry to ask, but how can you can you remove motion for the bilayer separately from the solvent?

Use comm-grps and carefully-designed index groups.

-Justin

>>
>> This should be fine, right? I have indeed removed the overall COM motion for each step of the simulation?
>>
>> Just to be sure: To convert the .trr file to an .xtc I could use this command:
>>
>> trjconv -f dmpclim32-all.trr -novel -center -fit rot+trans -pbc  whole -s dmpclim32-1.tpr -o dmpclim32-all.xtc
>>
>> I should not use -center (is that redundant when having nstcomm and comm_mode in the .mdp file?) or -fit rot+trans? Would your advice be to use -pbc nojump or just not -pbc at all? One last question: What is really the difference between -pbc nojumb and whole?
>>  
> No, you just feed g_msd the trajectory trr the way it is. Or convert it
> in xtc if you like.
> You have to monitor the COM of the bilayer to check that the COM is
> indeed removed. For this you can do:
> 1) trjconv -f traj.trr -pbc nojump -o traj-nojump.xtc
> 2) g_traj -f traj-nojump.xtc -com -ox coord-COM.xvg -n index.ndx; in
> that step you choose the bilayer
> in your index and get the coordinates of the COM for which you can
> monitor the x, y and z values.
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry to have written my last email to fast, I meant to erase -center, -fit, and -pbc from the command :-(
> 
> I'll try your suggestions with trjconv and g_traj.
>>
>>
>>
>> I looked at g_msd -h for version 4.0.2, 4.0.3, and 4.0.4 (I'm using 4.0.4) and they all had the -rmcomm option, the manual version 3.3 doesn't mention it however.
>>  
> I was referring to the versions prior 4.0.X. It might be good to use it,
> it is definitely
> necessary to remove it.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> #################.mdp file#############
>>
>> title                =  DMPC-LIM bilayer, 1 LIM and 128 lipids
>>
>> cpp                  =  /lib/cpp
>>
>>
>>
>> integrator           =  md
>>
>> dt                   =  0.002         ; ps
>>
>> tinit                =  0
>>
>> init_step            =  5000
>>
>> nsteps               =  75000000
>>
>> ;-------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Bond constraints
>>
>> define               =                ; posres etc.
>>
>> constraints          =  all-bonds     ; constrain all bond lengths
>>
>> constraint_algorithm =  lincs         ; default
>>
>> lincs_order          =  4             ; default
>>
>>
>>
>> ; X/V/F/E outputs
>>
>> nstxout              =  5000          ; pos out   ---  10 ps
>>
>> nstvout              =  5000          ; vel out   ---  10 ps
>>
>> nstfout              =  0             ; force out ---  no
>>
>> ;nstlog               = 5000           ; energies to log (0.5 ps)
>>
>> nstenergy            =  5000           ; energies to energy gile
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Neighbour list
>>
>> ns_type              =  grid          ; neighlist type
>>
>> nstlist              =  10            ; Freq. to update neighbour list
>>
>> rlist                =  1.0           ; nm (cutoff for short-range NL)
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Coulomb interactions
>>
>> coulombtype          =  PME           ; Particle Mesh Ewald
>>
>> rcoulomb             =  1.0           ; nm (direct space sum cut-off)
>>
>> optimize_fft         =  yes           ; optimal FFT plan for the grid
>>
>>
>>
>> ; van der Waals interactions
>>
>> vdwtype              =  Cut-off       ; Van der Waals interactions
>>
>> rvdw                 =  1.0           ; nm (LJ cut-off)
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Temperature coupling
>>
>> Tcoupl              =  berendsen
>>
>> tc-grps             =  DMPC  LIM_SOL
>>
>> tau_t               =  0.1   0.1    ; ps
>>
>> ref_t               =  310   310    ; K
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Energy monitoring
>>
>> energygrps          =  DMPC  LIM_SOL
>>
>>
>>
>> ; Pressure coupling
>>
>> Pcoupl              =  berendsen
>>
>> Pcoupltype          =  semiisotropic    ; semi: (xy) and (z) separately
>>
>> tau_p               =  1.0     1.0      ; ps
>>
>> compressibility     =  4.5e-5  4.5e-5   ; 1/bar (water @ 1 atm, 300 K)
>>
>> ref_p               =  1.0     1.0      ; bar
>>
>> #####################################
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Fra: gmx-users-bounces at gromacs.org på vegne af XAvier Periole
>> Sendt: fr 05-06-2009 09:34
>> Til: Discussion list for GROMACS users
>> Emne: Re: [gmx-users] diffusion coefficient with g_msd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Sarah Witzke wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Dear gromacs users,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have done several simulations with small lipophilic, molecules
>>> diffusing into a DMPC bilayer.
>>>
>>> I would like to calculate the diffusion coefficient of the molecules
>>> inside the membrane, and therefore I looked at g_msd. The manual
>>> (version 4.0) states on p. 250 (manual pages) that g_msd uses the
>>> Einstein relation. Reading "Molecular Modelling: principles and
>>> applications" 2.ed. by Andrew Leach it is explained that the "for
>>> calculating the diffusion coefficient the mean-squared distances
>>> should not be limited by the edges of the periodic box. In other
>>> words, we require a set of positions that have not been translated
>>> back into the central simulation cell." This makes sense since I try
>>> to calculate the distance a molecule diffuse.
>>>
>>> I haven't been able to find any mention of how gromacs handle this
>>> either in the manual or on the wiki page. The search function on the
>>> old webpage directs me to the new webpage, which doesn't give any
>>> results for "g_msd" or "diffusion coefficient" or alike, so my
>>> apologies for asking a question I could have found the answer to I
>>> old emails. When I google I get some of the old emails on g_msd from
>>> the gromacs website, but I can only read some of them (the others
>>> direct me to an empty page in the new webpage).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The first question is whether I can use my .xtc file made with this
>>> command from the original .trr file:
>>>
>>> trjconv -f dmpclim32-all.trr -novel -center -fit rot+trans -pbc
>>> whole -s dmpclim32-1.tpr -o dmpclim32-all.xtc  (for fitting and
>>> centring the DMPC group is used)
>>>
>>> I would guess I could not, but should I then do the command again
>>> creating a new .xtc file, but without using -center and -pbc whole?
>>>    
>> You are right. You can not use this trajectory. The fitting procedure
>> will alter the diffusion of the system overall.
>>
>> If you had to do something it would be to use -pbc nojump to allow the
>> molecules to freely diffuse.
>> g_msd takes care of the periodicity of your system. So you do not have
>> to fit or anything.
>>  
>>> My second question is why g_msd has the option -rmcomm to remove COM
>>> motion? How is g_msd created so that the diffusion coefficient can
>>> be calculated if COM motion is removed?
>>>    
>> The removal of the center of mass of the ENTIRE system is necessary
>> before calculating the msd.
>> This is generally done during the run using options in the mdp file.
>> Which version you are using? I'd never seen the -rmcomm before? You
>> can try to determine your
>> msd with and without the option and see if it affects your result.
>> This would depend on the removal
>> or not of the COM motion in your simulation.
>>
>> XAvier.
>>  
>>> Thank you very much for your time,
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>>
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>>>    
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>>
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> 
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------
>  Xavier Periole - Ph.D.
> 
>  Dept. of Biophysical Chemistry / MD Group  
>  Univ. of Groningen
>  Nijenborgh 4
>  9747 AG Groningen
>  The Netherlands
> 
>  Tel: +31-503634329
>  Fax: +31-503634398
>  email: x.periole at rug.nl
>  web-page: http://md.chem.rug.nl/~periole <http://md.chem.rug.nl/~periole> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
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-- 
========================================

Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

========================================



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