[gmx-users] Questions regarding Polarization Energy Calculation

Mark Abraham Mark.Abraham at anu.edu.au
Fri Aug 17 06:00:26 CEST 2012


On 17/08/2012 1:14 PM, jesmin jahan wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> According to your advice "  remove the  the bonded terms and zero the
> VDW parameters",
> I removed everything under [ bond] , [angles], [pairs] and [ dihedrals
> ],

This only removes the "bonded" terms (in the sense of those atoms that 
interact because of the presence of bonds). The VDW parameters for 
non-bonded interactions are in ffnonbonded.itp for your force field. You 
should probably follow the advice here 
http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/How-tos/Adding_a_Residue_to_a_Force_Field#Modifying_a_force_field 
to get a local copy you can change conveniently.

>   and run the simulation mdrun rerun.
>
> I  got output something like the following:
>
>
>     Energies (kJ/mol)
> GB Polarization        LJ (SR)   Coulomb (SR)      Potential    Kinetic En.
>     -2.23121e+03    7.54287e+07   -3.47729e+04    7.53917e+07    0.00000e+00
>     Total Energy    Temperature Pressure (bar)
>      7.53917e+07    0.00000e+00    0.00000e+00
>
> where the previous output was something like this:
>
> Energies (kJ/mol)
>             Bond          Angle    Proper Dih.  Improper Dih.GB Polarization
>      2.12480e+03    4.80088e+02    1.06648e+03    9.04861e+01   -2.23122e+03
>            LJ-14     Coulomb-14        LJ (SR)   Coulomb (SR)      Potential
>      7.05695e+02    5.47366e+03   -4.16856e+02   -8.74797e+03   -1.45483e+03
>      Kinetic En.   Total Energy    Temperature Pressure (bar)
>      0.00000e+00   -1.45483e+03    0.00000e+00    0.00000e+00
>
>
>
>     Energies (kJ/mol)
> GB Polarization        LJ (SR)   Coulomb (SR)      Potential    Kinetic En.
>     -2.23121e+03    4.17621e+13   -3.47729e+04    4.17621e+13    0.00000e+00
>     Total Energy    Temperature Pressure (bar)
>      4.17621e+13    0.00000e+00    0.00000e+00
>
>
> So, you can see, although it has managed to remove some extra terms,
> the LJ and Columb potential are still there. I searched for VWD
> parameters. Although I saw various options for VWD,  its not clear
> from the options, how to turn it off. Could you kindly tell me more
> clearly about it?
>
>
> I was also looking into the forcefield.itp file. I set the gen-pairs
> to no , fudgeLJ 1 and fudgeQQ to 1 which were yes, .5 and .83
> respectively originally.
>
> [ defaults ]
> ; nbfunc        comb-rule       gen-pairs       fudgeLJ fudgeQQ
> 1               2              no             1     1
>
> Please let me know how to get rid of calculation of other energies
> (LJ, Culumb and Total Potential) and how to set the parameters for
> this properly.

You can't get rid of the total. It's the total. You're trying to keep 
the (GB) Coulomb.

Mark

>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jesmin
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Mark Abraham <Mark.Abraham at anu.edu.au> wrote:
>> On 16/08/2012 5:08 PM, jesmin jahan wrote:
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>> If I open the .tpr file using notepad, it seems to be a binary file.
>>> Then, how to remove the  the bonded terms and zero the VDW parameters?
>>
>> In the .top file from which you made the .tpr. (And contributing .itp files)
>> Parts of chapter 5 may help with this process.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>> I really need to compare how fast different well known package can
>>> compute GB-polarization energy and how good the energy values are?
>>> That's why time is an important factor me my experiments and I  really
>>> want to measure the time for GB energy in isolation !
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jesmin
>>>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Mark Abraham <Mark.Abraham at anu.edu.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/08/2012 4:26 PM, jesmin jahan wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your previous reply.
>>>>>> I tried to run single point energy simulation with some proteins.
>>>>>> I got .log files with content like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Energies (kJ/mol)
>>>>>>               Bond          Angle    Proper Dih.  Improper Dih.GB
>>>>>> Polarization
>>>>>>        1.54109e+04    3.84351e+03    8.47152e+03    3.58425e+02
>>>>>> -1.69666e+04
>>>>>>              LJ-14     Coulomb-14        LJ (SR)   Coulomb (SR)
>>>>>> Potential
>>>>>>        4.29664e+03    3.63997e+04    2.22900e+05   -5.18818e+04
>>>>>> 2.22832e+05
>>>>>>        Kinetic En.   Total Energy    Temperature Pressure (bar)
>>>>>>        1.08443e+09    1.08465e+09    2.73602e+07    0.00000e+00
>>>>>> .......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Computing:                               M-Number         M-Flops  %
>>>>>> Flops
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>     Generalized Born Coulomb                 0.005711           0.274
>>>>>> 0.2
>>>>>>     GB Coulomb + LJ                          0.416308          25.395
>>>>>> 18.5
>>>>>>     Outer nonbonded loop                     0.016367           0.164
>>>>>> 0.1
>>>>>>     1,4 nonbonded interactions               0.008410           0.757
>>>>>> 0.6
>>>>>>     Born radii (HCT/OBC)                     0.439486          80.426
>>>>>> 58.5
>>>>>>     Born force chain rule                    0.439486           6.592
>>>>>> 4.8
>>>>>>     NS-Pairs                                 0.943653          19.817
>>>>>> 14.4
>>>>>>     Reset In Box                             0.003179           0.010
>>>>>> 0.0
>>>>>>     CG-CoM                                   0.006358           0.019
>>>>>> 0.0
>>>>>>     Bonds                                    0.003219           0.190
>>>>>> 0.1
>>>>>>     Angles                                   0.005838           0.981
>>>>>> 0.7
>>>>>>     Propers                                  0.011273           2.582
>>>>>> 1.9
>>>>>>     Virial                                   0.003899           0.070
>>>>>> 0.1
>>>>>>     Stop-CM                                  0.003179           0.032
>>>>>> 0.0
>>>>>>     Calc-Ekin                                0.006358           0.172
>>>>>> 0.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>     Total                                                     137.479
>>>>>> 100.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        D O M A I N   D E C O M P O S I T I O N   S T A T I S T I C S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     av. #atoms communicated per step for force:  2 x 6859.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         R E A L   C Y C L E   A N D   T I M E   A C C O U N T I N G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Computing:         Nodes     Number     G-Cycles    Seconds     %
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>     Domain decomp.        16          1        0.043        0.0     1.4
>>>>>>     Comm. coord.          16          1        0.003        0.0     0.1
>>>>>>     Neighbor search       16          1        0.103        0.0     3.5
>>>>>>     Force                 16          1        1.530        0.5    51.5
>>>>>>     Wait + Comm. F        16          1        0.264        0.1     8.9
>>>>>>     Write traj.           16          1        0.062        0.0     2.1
>>>>>>     Update                16          1        0.001        0.0     0.0
>>>>>>     Comm. energies        16          2        0.933        0.3    31.4
>>>>>>     Rest                  16                   0.031        0.0     1.1
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>     Total                 16                   2.970        0.9   100.0
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NOTE: 31 % of the run time was spent communicating energies,
>>>>>>          you might want to use the -gcom option of mdrun
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           Parallel run - timing based on wallclock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                   NODE (s)   Real (s)      (%)
>>>>>>           Time:      0.056      0.056    100.0
>>>>>>                   (Mnbf/s)   (GFlops)   (ns/day)  (hour/ns)
>>>>>> Performance:      7.497      2.442      1.535     15.637
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >From the log file, it seems, the time includes the time for LJ and
>>>>>> Columb Potential Energy. But as I said before, I am only interested to
>>>>>> GB-energy times. I am doing a comparative study of GB-energy
>>>>>> performance (values vs time) for different molecular dynamic packages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the LJ calculation also needs the distances, GROMACS does them in
>>>>> the same loops and makes no apology for being efficient. :-) If you're
>>>>> really trying to measure the time for the GB energy in isolation, then you
>>>>> will need to construct a different model physics that lacks LJ interactions.
>>>>> Or perhaps you don't really want to measure the time for GB energy in
>>>>> isolation. Depends what you're planning on using the information for, but
>>>>> usually measuring a time representative of the calculation you plan to run
>>>>> later is a good way to avoid having to account for lots of subtleties of
>>>>> different packages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why I was trying to deduct the time for any other extra energy
>>>>>> computation time from it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone tell me how to get the exact time of GB-polarization energy
>>>>>> (including Born radii) and excluding the times for any other
>>>>>> additional energy (like LJ and Columb etc) from gromacs simutation?
>>>>>
>>>>> The .tpr you use for the rerun doesn't have to be one that will produce
>>>>> a sensible model physics. If you remove the bonded terms and zero the VDW
>>>>> parameters then the only thing left to compute is the electrostatics, which
>>>>> will give you the time you seek. You'll still potentially have time spent
>>>>> doing neighbour searching, and that is something you need to consider for
>>>>> gauging relative performance of different packages. Again, the times you
>>>>> measure will not be significant unless you run for at least several minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Jesmin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 10:16 AM, jesmin jahan <shraban03 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Mark for your reply. I was trying to use Single-Point Energy
>>>>>>> Calculation as you advised in your first reply but for most of the
>>>>>>> files the simulation failed because I was using the original .pdb
>>>>>>> files in the mdrun command.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyways. I really appreciate your help.
>>>>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>>>> Jesmin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Mark Abraham
>>>>>>> <Mark.Abraham at anu.edu.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 14/08/2012 7:38 AM, jesmin jahan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear Gromacs Users,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have some questions regarding GB-Polarization Energy Calculation
>>>>>>>>> with Gromacs. I will be grateful if someone can help me with the
>>>>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am trying to calculate GB-Polarization energy for different
>>>>>>>>> Protein
>>>>>>>>> molecules. I am interested both in energy values with the time
>>>>>>>>> required to calculate the Born Radii and Polarization Energy.
>>>>>>>>> I am not doing any energy minimization step as the files I am using
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> input are already minimized.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here is the content of my  mdrun.mdp file:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> constraints         =  none
>>>>>>>>> integrator            =  md
>>>>>>>>> pbc                       =  no
>>>>>>>>> dt                         =  0.001
>>>>>>>>> nsteps                 =  0
>>>>>>>>> implicit_solvent    =  GBSA
>>>>>>>>> gb_algorithm        =  HCT
>>>>>>>>> sa_algorithm        =  None
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I am using following three steps for all the .pdb files I have:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> let x is the name of the .pdb file.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pdb2gmx -f x.pdb -ter -ignh -ff amber99sb -water none
>>>>>>>>> grompp -f mdr.mdp -c conf.gro -p topol.top -o imd.tpr
>>>>>>>>> mpirun -np 8 mdrun_mpi  -deffnm imd -v -g x.log
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you're not using the advice I gave you about how to calculate
>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>> point energies. OK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1 .Now the running time reported by a log file also includes other
>>>>>>>>> times. Its also not clear to me whether the time includes the time
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Born Radii calculations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The timing breakdown is printed at the end of the .log file. Likely
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> time is heavily dominated by the GB calculation and communication
>>>>>>>> cost. Born
>>>>>>>> radii calculation are part of the former, and not reported
>>>>>>>> separately. You
>>>>>>>> should not bother with timing measurements unless your run goes for
>>>>>>>> at least
>>>>>>>> several minutes, else your time will be dominated by I/O and setup
>>>>>>>> costs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, to get the GB-energy time  I am doing the following: I am also
>>>>>>>>> running a simulation with "implicit_solvent" set to "no" and I am
>>>>>>>>> taking the difference of these two (with GB and Without GB). Is that
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> right approach?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, that measures the weight difference between an apple and an
>>>>>>>> orange, not
>>>>>>>> whether the apple's seeds are heavy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also want to be sure that it also includes Born-Radii calculation
>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's part of the GB calculation, so it's included in its timing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there any other approach to do this?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. I was trying to run the simulations on 192 cores (16 nodes each
>>>>>>>>> with 12 codes). But I got "There is no domain decomposition for 12
>>>>>>>>> nodes that is compatible with the given box and a minimum cell size
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> 2.90226 nm" error for some pdb files. Can anyone explain what is
>>>>>>>>> happening. Is there any restriction on number of nodes can be used?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes. See discussion linked from
>>>>>>>> http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Errors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. I run the simulations with 1 way 96 (8 nodes each with 12 cores).
>>>>>>>>> Its not clear to me from the log file whether Gromacs is able to
>>>>>>>>> utilize all the 92 cores. It seems, it is using only 8 nodes.
>>>>>>>>> Does Gromacs use both shared and distributed memory parallelism?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not at the moment. Look at the top of your .log file for clues about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> your configuration is making available to GROMACS. It is likely that
>>>>>>>> mpirun
>>>>>>>> -np 8 makes only 8 MPI processes available to GROMACS. Using more
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> require you to use your MPI installation correctly (and we can't help
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4.   In the single-point energy  calculation "mdrun -s input.tpr
>>>>>>>>> -rerun configuration.pdb", is the configuration.pdb mentioned  is
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> original pdb file used on pdb2gmx  with -f option? Or its a modified
>>>>>>>>> pdb file? I am asking because if I use the original file that does
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> work always :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can be any configuration that matches the .top file you gave to
>>>>>>>> grompp.
>>>>>>>> That's the point - you only need one run input file to compute the
>>>>>>>> energy of
>>>>>>>> any such configuration you later want. The configuration you gave to
>>>>>>>> grompp
>>>>>>>> (or any other tool) doesn't matter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5. Is there any known speedup factor of Gromacs on multicores?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That depends on your simulation system, hardware, network and
>>>>>>>> algorithm.
>>>>>>>> Don't bother with fewer than hundreds of atoms per core.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> gmx-users mailing list    gmx-users at gromacs.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
>>>>>>>> * Only plain text messages are allowed!
>>>>>>>> * Please search the archive at
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jesmin Jahan Tithi
>>>>>>> PhD Student, CS
>>>>>>> Stony Brook University, NY-11790.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> gmx-users mailing list    gmx-users at gromacs.org
>>>>> http://lists.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jesmin Jahan Tithi
>>>> PhD Student, CS
>>>> Stony Brook University, NY-11790.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jesmin Jahan Tithi
>>> PhD Student, CS
>>> Stony Brook University, NY-11790.
>>
>> --
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