[Fwd: Re: [gmx-users] A problem with a "detaching Calpha/s"]

Arik Cohen acohen at biochem.duke.edu
Thu Dec 31 22:52:04 CET 2009


No, sorry for the confusion. The images are only from a simulation of 
one protein(tmRBP_Unliganded, PDB: 2FN9). The problem seen with BPTI was 
a bit different in a way that only 1 C-alpha was "detached" (cell size ?).

Arik

Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>
>
> Arik Cohen wrote:
>> Which two proteins ? I have at least in beginning only one protein 
>> which some how is divided into two along the calculation.
>> Any way I'll try both increasing the cell and fix it with trjconv.
>>
>
> Quoting your original message:
>
> "While running a simple MD simulation with both a small protein such 
> as BPTI and a larger one such as tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb..."
>
> I assumed that what I was seeing in the images was a set of two 
> proteins.  My concern was that you defined a box relative to the 
> larger protein, then inserted the smaller one (BPTI?), leaving 
> insufficient space in the box to satisfy the minimum image 
> convention.  If that's not what we're looking at, then that'd be 
> useful to know :)
>
> If you have a single protein, "divided into two" then the problem is 
> almost certainly a simple periodicity artifact.  Bonds do not break in 
> a normal MD calculation (in fact they can't using the standard MM 
> approximations).
>
> -Justin
>
>> Thanks a lot
>>
>> Arik
>>
>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>> I'm using dodecahedron -d 0.7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Was that distance specified with respect to both of the protein 
>>> molecules in the unit cell?  You can check for spurious PBC 
>>> interactions with g_mindist -pi. Anyway, I'd be curious to see how 
>>> you do with trjconv.
>>>
>>> -Justin
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not tried yet to fix it with trjconv which I will . 
>>>>>> Attached is a picture with 4 snapshots taken from the simulation. 
>>>>>> The C-alphas in question are emphasized with red color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is your unit cell sufficiently large?  It looks like the C-alphas 
>>>>> indicated are simply crossing the periodic boundary on the "left" 
>>>>> of the frame and interacting with the protein molecule in the 
>>>>> "right" of the frame, which would indicate to me that the unit 
>>>>> cell is too small and you're seeing spurious PBC interactions 
>>>>> (i.e., violation of the minimum image convention).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry to bother you again ,but its not only a periodic effect 
>>>>>>>> since only *some of the atoms* in the  "Detached" group are 
>>>>>>>> vanishing from this group and reappearing in the main protein 
>>>>>>>> group. The rest of the atoms are either always in the detached 
>>>>>>>> or the main group.
>>>>>>>> In addition, the "detached" group includes three segments of 
>>>>>>>> the protein(8 residues(126-131), 8 residues(157-164) and 4 
>>>>>>>> residues186-189).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From your description, this sounds exactly like a periodicity 
>>>>>>> problem - some of the atoms are crossing the periodic boundary 
>>>>>>> and are appearing in strange locations.  Have you even tried 
>>>>>>> trjconv to fix it?  That would be useful information, as I see 
>>>>>>> that Mark long ago also suggested the same sort of fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is hard for me to envision what you are seeing.  It would be 
>>>>>>> enormously helpful if you could post images (screenshots, etc) 
>>>>>>> of the problematic structures to get a more expedient resolution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With regards to your question I do see some periodicity in 
>>>>>>>>>> which for a section of time in the trajectory some of the 
>>>>>>>>>> Calphas in the "detached group" are vanishing from it and 
>>>>>>>>>> reappear in the main protein.
>>>>>>>>>> In addition,
>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate as before any suggestion you might have in 
>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If this is just a periodicity artifact, fix it with trjconv.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mark Abraham wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for answering so quickly !. Apparently whole 
>>>>>>>>>>>> residues have detached from the protein.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So... like I asked last time, are you seeing a periodicity 
>>>>>>>>>>> artefact? "Detached" covers a whole gamut of possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another strange thing that happens in pyMol and VMD is that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I select an atom or a residue in the detached group 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the selection appears twice: one in the detached group and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> one in the main part.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you've got atoms duplicated, then it sounds like 
>>>>>>>>>>> something's going wrong with how they're interpreting the 
>>>>>>>>>>> structure file, or how you're manipulating it afterwards. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Either way, it's not a problem for the GROMACS mailing list 
>>>>>>>>>>> unless you can demonstrate the atoms are duplicated in the 
>>>>>>>>>>> structure file (which they aren't!).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Abraham wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear GROMACS users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While running a simple MD simulation with both a small 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protein such as BPTI and a larger one such as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb, I'm encountering an odd 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation in which one (in the case of BPTI) or several 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calphas (in the later case) are "detaching them selfs" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the main group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "main group" of what? Do the atoms bound to them move 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also? Are you seeing a periodicity artefact?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem appeared only after adding salt to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation(at least in the case of BPTI).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate any suggestions and comments on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The run files are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *em.mdp:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 Minimization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  steep      ; (steep)using steepest 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  50000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emtol               =  5.0 ; tolerance kJ/(Mol -1 nm-1) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of 10.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *pr.mdp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 PR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  50000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dt                  =  0.002 ;(in ps) doing a 100ps traj.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constraints         =  all-bonds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  10 ; neighbour list updates every 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-t               =  0.1 0.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-t               =  298 298
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-p               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compressibility     =  5e-5 5e-5 5e-5 0 0 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-p               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  100
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define              =  -DPOSRES ; include 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posre.itp(position restraint) file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *run.md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  300000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dt                  =  0.001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constraints         =  all-bonds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tcoupl              =  V-rescale  ;V-rescale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-t               =  0.8 0.8
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-t               =  298 298
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstxout             =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstvout             =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstxtcout           =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The runs commands are(integrated inside a C++ code):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SysCommand1 = "echo 6 | pdb2gmx -f " + FileName + " 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -water tip3p";
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("editconf -f conf.gro -bt dodecahedron -d 0.7 -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("genbox -cp box.gro -cs spc216.gro -p topol.top -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimization:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  if(Mode == "NoSalt")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      //system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   if(Mode == "WithSalt")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salting:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("echo 12 | genion -s em.tpr -conc 0.1 -neutral -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("grompp -f MDP/prmd.mdp -p topol.top -c em.gro -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   /* The actual run*/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm pr"); 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>



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