[Fwd: Re: [gmx-users] A problem with a "detaching Calpha/s"]

Justin A. Lemkul jalemkul at vt.edu
Thu Dec 31 22:56:49 CET 2009



Arik Cohen wrote:
> No, sorry for the confusion. The images are only from a simulation of 
> one protein(tmRBP_Unliganded, PDB: 2FN9). The problem seen with BPTI was 
> a bit different in a way that only 1 C-alpha was "detached" (cell size ?).
> 

If there is supposed to be only a single protein in the images you've shown (and 
after having a look at the 2FN9 structure from the PDB), it seems pretty clear 
to me that part of your protein has simply crossed a periodic boundary and 
trjconv -pbc mol (or some such command) should fix it.

-Justin

> Arik
> 
> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>
>>
>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>> Which two proteins ? I have at least in beginning only one protein 
>>> which some how is divided into two along the calculation.
>>> Any way I'll try both increasing the cell and fix it with trjconv.
>>>
>>
>> Quoting your original message:
>>
>> "While running a simple MD simulation with both a small protein such 
>> as BPTI and a larger one such as tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb..."
>>
>> I assumed that what I was seeing in the images was a set of two 
>> proteins.  My concern was that you defined a box relative to the 
>> larger protein, then inserted the smaller one (BPTI?), leaving 
>> insufficient space in the box to satisfy the minimum image 
>> convention.  If that's not what we're looking at, then that'd be 
>> useful to know :)
>>
>> If you have a single protein, "divided into two" then the problem is 
>> almost certainly a simple periodicity artifact.  Bonds do not break in 
>> a normal MD calculation (in fact they can't using the standard MM 
>> approximations).
>>
>> -Justin
>>
>>> Thanks a lot
>>>
>>> Arik
>>>
>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>> I'm using dodecahedron -d 0.7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was that distance specified with respect to both of the protein 
>>>> molecules in the unit cell?  You can check for spurious PBC 
>>>> interactions with g_mindist -pi. Anyway, I'd be curious to see how 
>>>> you do with trjconv.
>>>>
>>>> -Justin
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have not tried yet to fix it with trjconv which I will . 
>>>>>>> Attached is a picture with 4 snapshots taken from the simulation. 
>>>>>>> The C-alphas in question are emphasized with red color.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is your unit cell sufficiently large?  It looks like the C-alphas 
>>>>>> indicated are simply crossing the periodic boundary on the "left" 
>>>>>> of the frame and interacting with the protein molecule in the 
>>>>>> "right" of the frame, which would indicate to me that the unit 
>>>>>> cell is too small and you're seeing spurious PBC interactions 
>>>>>> (i.e., violation of the minimum image convention).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry to bother you again ,but its not only a periodic effect 
>>>>>>>>> since only *some of the atoms* in the  "Detached" group are 
>>>>>>>>> vanishing from this group and reappearing in the main protein 
>>>>>>>>> group. The rest of the atoms are either always in the detached 
>>>>>>>>> or the main group.
>>>>>>>>> In addition, the "detached" group includes three segments of 
>>>>>>>>> the protein(8 residues(126-131), 8 residues(157-164) and 4 
>>>>>>>>> residues186-189).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From your description, this sounds exactly like a periodicity 
>>>>>>>> problem - some of the atoms are crossing the periodic boundary 
>>>>>>>> and are appearing in strange locations.  Have you even tried 
>>>>>>>> trjconv to fix it?  That would be useful information, as I see 
>>>>>>>> that Mark long ago also suggested the same sort of fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is hard for me to envision what you are seeing.  It would be 
>>>>>>>> enormously helpful if you could post images (screenshots, etc) 
>>>>>>>> of the problematic structures to get a more expedient resolution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Justin A. Lemkul wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With regards to your question I do see some periodicity in 
>>>>>>>>>>> which for a section of time in the trajectory some of the 
>>>>>>>>>>> Calphas in the "detached group" are vanishing from it and 
>>>>>>>>>>> reappear in the main protein.
>>>>>>>>>>> In addition,
>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate as before any suggestion you might have in 
>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If this is just a periodicity artifact, fix it with trjconv.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Justin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Abraham wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for answering so quickly !. Apparently whole 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> residues have detached from the protein.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So... like I asked last time, are you seeing a periodicity 
>>>>>>>>>>>> artefact? "Detached" covers a whole gamut of possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another strange thing that happens in pyMol and VMD is that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I select an atom or a residue in the detached group 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the selection appears twice: one in the detached group and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one in the main part.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you've got atoms duplicated, then it sounds like 
>>>>>>>>>>>> something's going wrong with how they're interpreting the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> structure file, or how you're manipulating it afterwards. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way, it's not a problem for the GROMACS mailing list 
>>>>>>>>>>>> unless you can demonstrate the atoms are duplicated in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> structure file (which they aren't!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Abraham wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear GROMACS users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While running a simple MD simulation with both a small 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protein such as BPTI and a larger one such as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9.pdb, I'm encountering an odd 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation in which one (in the case of BPTI) or several 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calphas (in the later case) are "detaching them selfs" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the main group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "main group" of what? Do the atoms bound to them move 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also? Are you seeing a periodicity artefact?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem appeared only after adding salt to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation(at least in the case of BPTI).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate any suggestions and comments on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The run files are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *em.mdp:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 Minimization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  steep      ; (steep)using steepest 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  50000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emtol               =  5.0 ; tolerance kJ/(Mol -1 nm-1) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of 10.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *pr.mdp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9 PR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  50000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dt                  =  0.002 ;(in ps) doing a 100ps traj.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constraints         =  all-bonds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  10 ; neighbour list updates every 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-t               =  0.1 0.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-t               =  298 298
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pcoupl              =  Berendsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-p               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compressibility     =  5e-5 5e-5 5e-5 0 0 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-p               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  100
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define              =  -DPOSRES ; include 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posre.itp(position restraint) file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *run.md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *title               =  tmRBP_Unliganded_2FN9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrator          =  md
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nsteps              =  300000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dt                  =  0.001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constraints         =  all-bonds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstlist             =  10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rlist               =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coulombtype         =  PME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rcoulomb            =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vdw-type            =  cut-off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rvdw                =  1.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tcoupl              =  V-rescale  ;V-rescale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tc-grps             =  Protein non-protein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tau-t               =  0.8 0.8
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ref-t               =  298 298
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstxout             =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstvout             =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstxtcout           =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nstenergy           =  1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The runs commands are(integrated inside a C++ code):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SysCommand1 = "echo 6 | pdb2gmx -f " + FileName + " 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -water tip3p";
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("editconf -f conf.gro -bt dodecahedron -d 0.7 -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("genbox -cp box.gro -cs spc216.gro -p topol.top -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimization:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  if(Mode == "NoSalt")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      //system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   if(Mode == "WithSalt")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       system("grompp -f MDP/em.mdp -p topol.top -c 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro -o em.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm em");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salting:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  system("echo 12 | genion -s em.tpr -conc 0.1 -neutral -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solvated.gro");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system("grompp -f MDP/prmd.mdp -p topol.top -c em.gro -o 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pr.tpr");
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   /* The actual run*/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   system("mpirun -np 4 mdrun -v -deffnm pr"); 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 

-- 
========================================

Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

========================================



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