[gmx-users] Test Particle Insertion

Javier Cerezo jcb1 at um.es
Wed May 16 12:21:31 CEST 2012


Hi

Well, according to the link you pointed out, the Widom technique gives 
you the excess chemical potential, as we discussed. mu and mu_ideal (in 
your link) are not calculated, those are just the reference states 
between which the Widom technique calculates the excess chem pot.

As I said, I think U_{n+1} refers to the interaction energy of the 
inserte particle with the system, but maybe someone could confirm or 
correct.

Javier

El 16/05/12 11:44, Steven Neumann escribió:
>
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Javier Cerezo <jcb1 at um.es 
> <mailto:jcb1 at um.es>> wrote:
>
>     About the red curve, I guess fluctuations might be directly
>     related to volume fluctuations, you can extract the volume over
>     time from g_energy (boxXX*boxYY**boxZZ) and compare. (just another
>     comment, now I am not very sure about the "f." that precedes the
>     red line legend..)
>
>     About the interpretation of the quantities, the Widom technique
>     does not provide you with an absolute value of the chemical
>     potential but directly with the excess chemical potential. So,
>     mu=-kTlog(Ve ^ (U*B)/(V))n+1 is the excess chemical potential,
>     where (if I recall correctly) U_{n+1} is the the interaction
>     energy  between the inserted particle and the rest of the system.
>     You don't need (and should not do) such post-processing operations
>     that you proposed to get the excess chemical potential.
>
>     Javier
>
>
> Thank you.
> In this case I am considering the curve with NPT - with volume.
>
> From the equation u=-kTlog(Ve ^ (U*B)/(V))n+1  (the one on the plot - 
> if it is correct! Or it should be with delta?) we will obtain the 
> chemical potential of the system with N+1 molecules. To obtain the 
> excess we need to have chemical potential of the system wit N 
> particles and the substract it according to the 
> equation:http://www.sklogwiki.org/SklogWiki/index.php/Widom_test-particle_method
> If it is a mistake and there is deltaU this is the exceess, if not 
> this is only for N+1. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Steven
>
>
>
>     El 16/05/12 11:06, Steven Neumann escribió:
>>     Thank you very much! I just saw your response.
>>
>>     As I run it in NPT ensemble the plot with volume is important for
>>     me. Please, See the plot:
>>
>>     http://speedy.sh/CJn5b/tpiN.jpg
>>
>>     So does the fluctuating red curve make any sesnse then if it does
>>     not consider volume?
>>
>>     Another thing: this is chemical potential of the system with
>>     extra water molecule (N+1), right (u=-kTlog(Ve ^ (U*B)/(V))n+1?
>>     So if I want to obtain the excess chemical potential:
>>     u=-kTlog(Ve ^ (-deltaU*B)/(V)) I should calculate it for the
>>     system with N molecules and then substract it.
>>     Is it calculated somewhere or I should use g_energy of my
>>     previosu system and calculate the total potential energy then
>>     -kTlog... of this values and then substract it? Please correct me
>>     if I am wrong.
>>
>>     Steven
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Javier Cerezo <jcb1 at um.es
>>     <mailto:jcb1 at um.es>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Steven.
>>
>>
>>>         1. Why this value is divided by nm3? Shall I multiply it by
>>>         the simulation box?
>>         It is not not divided by nm3. The legend for "y" axis is not
>>         appropriate for your plot. Keep in mind that the same graph
>>         is used to represent lots of quantities (you can plot all of
>>         them with xmgrace -nxy tpi.xvg). The "y" axis is not the same
>>         for all, but only one label is possible, so developers have
>>         to chose which label to place on the axis. But this is just a
>>         label, don't give much importance to it and analyse you
>>         results (including units) according to the equations and the
>>         standard units in gromacs.
>>
>>>         2. Why e^(-BU) is multiplied by V? I just want to have the
>>>         excess chemical potential: u=-kTlog(e ^ (-deltaU*B) - so how
>>>         can I get deltaU?
>>         The volume appears in the expression of the excess chemical
>>         potential if you are running a NpT ensemble. The second plot
>>         (if you use xmgrace -nxy tpi.xvg) does not contain the volume.
>>
>>>         3. The value corresponds to the plateau so I should run it
>>>         for longer time?
>>         You are getting a time&ensemble average and for large
>>         sampling (and large simulation times), this average should
>>         converge. So, the final value you will get is the last point
>>         of the graph, it up to you to say if it is converged. So you
>>         can try to enlarge the number of points sampled, if the shape
>>         does not change you are sampling correctly every snapshot,
>>         then take longer simulation times if you want to converge
>>         your results.
>>
>>         Javier
>>
>>
>>         El 15/05/12 09:57, Steven Neumann escribió:
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Justin A. Lemkul
>>>         <jalemkul at vt.edu <mailto:jalemkul at vt.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On 5/14/12 11:53 AM, Steven Neumann wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Dear Gmx Users,
>>>
>>>                 Did anyone use TPI method for the calculation of
>>>                 chemical potential? The tpi.xvg
>>>                 files consists of:
>>>
>>>                 @ s0 legend "-kT log(<Ve\S-\xb\f{}U\N>/<V>)"
>>>                 @ s1 legend "f. -kT log<e\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s2 legend "f. <e\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s3 legend "f. V"
>>>                 @ s4 legend "f. <Ue\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s5 legend "f. <U\sVdW System\Ne\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s6 legend "f. <U\sdisp c\Ne\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s7 legend "f. <U\sCoul System\Ne\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>                 @ s8 legend "f. <U\sCoul recip\Ne\S-\xb\f{}U\N>"
>>>
>>>                 @    xaxis  label "Time (ps)"
>>>                 @    yaxis  label "(kJ mol\S-1\N) / (nm\S3\N)"
>>>
>>>                 Can anyone explain me these legends? I just want
>>>                 obtain a value of the excess
>>>                 chemical potential according to the equation:
>>>                 u=-kT log (-deltaV/kT), Which legend is responsible
>>>                 for this and what are the
>>>                 units? kJ/mol? Please, explain as the above letters
>>>                 does not mean to me anything?
>>>
>>>
>>>             These strings are formatted for XmGrace.  Have you tried
>>>             plotting the file to see what it contains?  The legends
>>>             will be far more obvious if you do.
>>>
>>>             -Justin
>>>
>>>
>>>         Thank you Justin.
>>>         Can anyone explain me from the plot:
>>>
>>>         http://speedy.sh/Xpnws/tpi.JPG
>>>
>>>         1. Why this value is divided by nm3? Shall I multiply it by
>>>         the simulation box?
>>>         2. Why e^(-BU) is multiplied by V? I just want to have the
>>>         excess chemical potential: u=-kTlog(e ^ (-deltaU*B) - so how
>>>         can I get deltaU?
>>>         3. The value corresponds to the plateau so I should run it
>>>         for longer time?
>>>
>>>
>>>         Thank you,
>>>
>>>         Steven
>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             ========================================
>>>
>>>             Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
>>>             Department of Biochemistry
>>>             Virginia Tech
>>>             Blacksburg, VA
>>>             jalemkul[at]vt.edu <http://vt.edu> | (540) 231-9080
>>>             <tel:%28540%29%20231-9080>
>>>             http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin
>>>
>>>             ========================================
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>>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Javier CEREZO BASTIDA
>>         PhD Student
>>         Physical Chemistry
>>         Universidad de Murcia
>>         Murcia (Spain)
>>         Tel: (+34)868887434 <tel:%28%2B34%29868887434>
>>
>>         --
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>>
>>
>>
>
>     -- 
>     Javier CEREZO BASTIDA
>     Ph.D. Student
>     Physical Chemistry
>     Universidad de Murcia
>     30100, Murcia (SPAIN)
>     T: (0034)868887434
>
>
>     --
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>
>
>
>

-- 
Javier CEREZO BASTIDA
Ph.D. Student
Physical Chemistry
Universidad de Murcia
30100, Murcia (SPAIN)
T: (0034)868887434

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